Marxism - Not dead?

[saskganesh]

we must move beyond capitalism, just as the world sped past Marxism, decades ago.

Why must we move beyond capitalism?  Especially when there is no viable alternative it seems foolish to say we must abandon it.

why not? because people are moral and the markets are not moral. they are just markets.

I guess it all turns on how we define capitalism as an ideology.

[Berkut]

What does the markets not being moral matter? What are you planning on replacing capitalism with that would be moral?

[Jaron]

We could try barter.

[saskganesh]

What does the markets not being moral matter? What are you planning on replacing capitalism with that would be moral?

because people like to think they are moral in their personal interactions.

of course, hammers are tools, and they are neither moral or immoral. but a hammer is not an personal interaction. are markets hammers or are they interactions?

[Archy]

getting  about 1% in a general election in a country where people are obliged to vote. in that case you're pretty dead as an ideology. During one of the biggest financial crises in years.

[Ed Anger]

We could try barter.

Or raid dragon lairs for their treasure.

[Josquius]

We could try barter.

My Serbian friend always loves to say that Serbia is such a good country because things work that way there.
I don't have the heart to point out all the flaws in what she says.

Or raid dragon lairs for their treasure.

I like that one. Instead of going to work or school we instead head out into the long grass and beat up animals for exp and gil!



Anyway. Marxism=dumb.
Socialism is something that has been gradually fazing in for years now and will continue to do so until a few centuries down the line what do you know, we're socialist. Evolution, not revolution. This financial crisis has shown that is a mistake to take a Thatcherist step back,  forward is the way.

[Jaron]

We could try barter.

Or raid dragon lairs for their treasure.

If you like that idea Ed, I could send you a code for a WoW free trial!

[Ed Anger]

We could try barter.

Or raid dragon lairs for their treasure.

If you like that idea Ed, I could send you a code for a WoW free trial!

Thanks, but no. I don't play well with others.

[Berkut]

What does the markets not being moral matter? What are you planning on replacing capitalism with that would be moral?

because people like to think they are moral in their personal interactions.

of course, hammers are tools, and they are neither moral or immoral. but a hammer is not an personal interaction. are markets hammers or are they interactions?

A market is neither a hammer or an interaction.

What is your "moral" interaction that is going to replace capitalism, and what exactly about capitalism at the transactional level (if we are simplifying) is immoral?

If we are looking at transactions, what again is immoral about you giving me something I want in return for something you want?

I would argue that you taking something from me I do not wish to give in return for something (or nothing) that I have not asked for is rather immoral, in fact.

[crazy canuck]

we must move beyond capitalism, just as the world sped past Marxism, decades ago.

Marxism is the only economic model to attempt to move past capitalism.  Indeed the very notion of moving beyond capitalism is a Marxist concept.  For something to take the place of capitalism someone first needs to create a cogent system under which we can produce a reasonable standard of living.

Unless you want to go back to the future with subsistance farming, capitalism, for all its warts, is the only system available.

[Oexmelin]

we must move beyond capitalism, just as the world sped past Marxism, decades ago.

Marxism is the only economic model to attempt to move past capitalism.  Indeed the very notion of moving beyond capitalism is a Marxist concept.  For something to take the place of capitalism someone first needs to create a cogent system under which we can produce a reasonable standard of living.

Unless you want to go back to the future with subsistance farming, capitalism, for all its warts, is the only system available.

If one takes the view that many of the elements of «capitalism» existed well before they were re-constructed into a (somewhat) coherent body of thought, I do not think we will require a conscious choice between two abstract ideas as in a referendum when we move «away» from capitalism.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

we must move beyond capitalism, just as the world sped past Marxism, decades ago.

Why must we move beyond capitalism?  Especially when there is no viable alternative it seems foolish to say we must abandon it.

I'm not talking about overnight here. and what I mean is not change, but evolve, really.

Communism only works, on paper. Capitalism works, only with paper.

Obviously some things are a bit touch and go, but I think it'll just naturally change as our cultures do, whether it becomes more capitalistic or less, or something else altogether, it will change. everything does.

[citizen k]

... whether it becomes more capitalistic or less, or something else altogether, it will change. everything does.

I have a feeling we've yet to see the full fruition of Laissez-faire markets.

[Palisadoes]

Isn't there some Muslim market where beads are legitimate currency? Marakesh maybe?