Good Late Antique-Early Dark Ages Games that aren't RTW:BI?

[Habbaku]

The lead designer of Civ V is working on one, At the Gates.

That looks...terrible.

Let's have Romans and Barbarians!  On a random map! 

  Didn't bother reading very far, did you?

• Play on a geographically accurate map of Europe or 100% randomly-generated worlds.

I know attention-spans aren't very popular these days, but this is getting silly.

Once Age has decided it is terrible, the reasons don't matter; if he gets the first set of reasons wrong because they are based on ignorant assumptions, he can come up with new reasons in a trice.  Ignorant assumptions are more numerous than facts.

Well, at least I'm not as single minded as you. You haven't changed your mind on anything since the Fall of the Empire.

[You do realise that if I've read four of the previews I have to have based my opinion on more than just "Random Maps, NO!", don't you?]

At this point, I'm not sure you understood the previews if you did read them...

[Agelastus]

The lead designer of Civ V is working on one, At the Gates.

That looks...terrible.

Let's have Romans and Barbarians!  On a random map! 

  Didn't bother reading very far, did you?

• Play on a geographically accurate map of Europe or 100% randomly-generated worlds.

I know attention-spans aren't very popular these days, but this is getting silly.

Once Age has decided it is terrible, the reasons don't matter; if he gets the first set of reasons wrong because they are based on ignorant assumptions, he can come up with new reasons in a trice.  Ignorant assumptions are more numerous than facts.

Well, at least I'm not as single minded as you. You haven't changed your mind on anything since the Fall of the Empire.

[You do realise that if I've read four of the previews I have to have based my opinion on more than just "Random Maps, NO!", don't you?]

At this point, I'm not sure you understood the previews if you did read them...

Simply because I take away from them "going to be a terrible game" and you don't?

Please elaborate...

[grumbler]

Well, at least I'm not as single minded as you. You haven't changed your mind on anything since the Fall of the Empire.

[You do realise that if I've read four of the previews I have to have based my opinion on more than just "Random Maps, NO!", don't you?]

You are, in fact, more simple-minded than I even thought you were.  You claim to have read four reviews and yet the biggest objection to the game you can come up with is an objection that isn't even true?

[You do realize that I've read...  five... no... ten.. yeah, ten reviews, that's the ticket...and none of them thought that the game was restricted to Romans and Barbarians on a random map, don't you?].

[Grallon]

This one looks interesting Habbaku - despite the watercolor map.  I watched the hour long demo and the mechanics seem well thought out and streamlined.

Thank you for sharing.



G.

[crazy canuck]

This looks interesting.  I am looking forward to the Languish early reviews.

[Agelastus]

Well, at least I'm not as single minded as you. You haven't changed your mind on anything since the Fall of the Empire.

[You do realise that if I've read four of the previews I have to have based my opinion on more than just "Random Maps, NO!", don't you?]

You are, in fact, more simple-minded than I even thought you were.  You claim to have read four reviews and yet the biggest objection to the game you can come up with is an objection that isn't even true?

[You do realize that I've read...  five... no... ten.. yeah, ten reviews, that's the ticket...and none of them thought that the game was restricted to Romans and Barbarians on a random map, don't you?].

I must remember this; the moment Grumbler went so far off the rails that he confused the words preview and review. Not just once but several times.

Or in other words I was reading the site Grumbler...you know, the very thing I was accused of not doing.



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Anyway, on a more serious note, you do realise that they're selling the "random map" feature as a main attraction of the game, don't you? After all, they have half the blurb and all the pictures lauding the random map option, even going so far as to describe the nature of the random maps as being "innovative". Then, almost as an afterthought, they stick at the bottom of the page "Oh, and you can play it with an accurate map as well".

If you're going to create a game where you think some "innovative random map feature" is going to be a main selling point why sell it as an historical game of the period. It's no more of the period than "Age of Empires" (itself a very, very fun game) was.

Edit: Oh, and hey...looking at the first minute only of the "Let's play" video it looks possible that they haven't even designed the "real world" map yet. Note that the only option the alpha has is for a random map.

Yep. That looks very much like a designer with an idea of "cool systems and features" for a game that he wants to use and then desperately looking around for an historical period he can force them into. Rather than starting with a historical period and working out what he needs for a game from there. With that method he might as well have designed a fantasy game.

[Agelastus]

So, I've watched 27.44 minutes of the demo (I'll watch the rest at another time.)

So far?

Well, it's a typical "you know nothing" at the start. No tech, no real knowledge of the geography. There's even caravans in the game yet they haven't even brought your tribe any "rumours of faraway lands". Very period feel there, eh? At least there's a good excuse for that in Civilisation and AoE games.

He's had 3 "clans" join his tribe despite having no fame and no food production (or anything else) to attract them. I hope that means he's playing on an "easy" level where the player gets bonuses.

Also, having "clans" that each specialise in one field only seems very superficial, even with the possibility of retraining. Why call them "clans" at all even, since you can apparently have a whole clan of bards? In fact, given the era, giving them 3 or 4 specialisations would give a better historical feel. Say "Primary farmer", "Secondary hunter, fletcher" "Tertiary warrior". They're good at the first, average at the second two and poor (but can do it) at the fourth. Give you the flexibility to use them more as needed.

[OK, maybe some of the above is a little unfair for criticism of an Alpha; but if he's showing it off most of the basic stuff ought to be settled, oughtn't it.]

Anyway, I've still not seen anything that screams at me, "play it"; in fact, it still looks pretty terrible to me. And to be honest that does disappoint me a little, the period is crying out for a good game. Although I'd prefer one where it was possible to play the Roman side as well. I really doubt that "Total War: Atilla" is going to be that impressive, after all.