Human Rights Watch Warns of 'Authoritarian Drift' in Turkey

[Zanza]

Trump called Erdogan to congratulate him. 

[Zanza]

But what I mainly meant with "not accepting" is more on an information, education and respect level. There is a surprising number of young Turks (no matter their actual passport) that were in favor of the referendum. They feel excluded from our society, not respected as Turks and lack information about the political situation in Turkey and the consequences of this referendum. We should try to win them over to our own liberal view and not leave them for Erdogan to entice with his authoritarian nationalism. That's something that your society has so far not done at all or at least too little. Another failure of integration. Lamenting their views and suggesting illegal activities like deportation won't help. We need to try to improve the situation with the means that we actually have.

That's why you and your people are headed for the dustbin of history. You simply cannot address the Islamist curse with these liberal soft-power approaches. They are a brute people who understand and respect brute force, anything else they ignore.

From what I can see, it was about nationalism, not about islamism. That's not the same thing.

[FunkMonk]

Trump called Erdogan to congratulate him. 

He wishes he could pass such a major constitutional change via simple majority too.

[alfred russel]

Trump called Erdogan to congratulate him. 

He wishes he could pass such a major constitutional change via simple majority too.

He also wishes he could get a majority of voters in an election.

[FunkMonk]

Trump called Erdogan to congratulate him. 

He wishes he could pass such a major constitutional change via simple majority too.

He also wishes he could get a majority of voters in an election.

[Solmyr]

I think Islamism is a serious middle term threat in parts of Europe that are seeing a lot of immigration combined with low birth rates and (relatively) weak liberal institutions.

What are those parts of Europe, exactly?

[Tamas]

First of all, isn't Gulen an imam? I know "Gulenist" is used by the Turkish government on anyone with a dissenting opinion (or look on their face, or just standing in the way of somebody's promotion at the local town council), but why have WE started referring to Gulenists as beacons of democracy?

Secondly, votes from abroad must be a hundred times easier to cheat away than internal ones so I wouldn't get too hung up on those numbers. It's like Putin's poll numbers in Russia. If you believe any of that shit you are just showing yourself a Westerner incapable of thinking outside of their own First World box.

Thirdly, I can fully believe the majority of foreign Turks voting for Erdogan to be crowned Sultan. Why wouldn't they? Do you really think all that blue collar workforce went abroad because they didn't like the finer points of state of democracy and liberal values in their country? No they went because their economical situation was hopeless.

They voted for the eastern version of a "strong man who fixes shit". Their counterparts have already done so in the US so there is not much ground left for high horses.

Of course they don't share the liberal democratic values of their host countries. Look at the bloody polls in Western Europe on the up and coming far right: a far greater number of European natives give exactly fuckall for the same values.

[Duque de Bragança]

Trump called Erdogan to congratulate him. 

After or before Putin? 

[CountDeMoney]

I think Islamism is a serious middle term threat in parts of Europe that are seeing a lot of immigration combined with low birth rates and (relatively) weak liberal institutions.

What are those parts of Europe, exactly?

The important parts.

[Valmy]

Why would Erdogan supporters be MORE motivated? Wouldn't those forced out of the country by Erdogan be more motivated? I mean now they will have a hard time even visiting.

A lot of the original Turkish immigrants to Europe (in the 60s and 70s) were deliberately recruited from backwards rural areas. The succeeding waves of immigration, as is often the case, plugged into the now established network. Most Turks in the EU are not refugees of any sort, as I understand it, but people in search of a better quality of life and their descendants.

Right. But why would they be so passionately motivated?

[Valmy]

Trump called Erdogan to congratulate him. 

Wait. Is that true? Surely it cannot be true. I don't even have the heart to fact check this.

[FunkMonk]

Trump called Erdogan to congratulate him. 

Wait. Is that true? Surely it cannot be true. I don't even have the heart to fact check this.

It is being reported by the New York Times, the Washington Post, and other fake news outlets today, yes.

[Syt]

Trump called Erdogan to congratulate him. 

Wait. Is that true? Surely it cannot be true. I don't even have the heart to fact check this.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/18/europe/turkey-referendum-trump-erdogan/index.html

US President Donald Trump has become the first Western leader to congratulate Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan for winning a controversial referendum that grants him far-reaching, largely unchecked powers.

Trump called the Turkish leader on Monday shortly after international monitors delivered a harsh verdict on the referendum on constitutional changes. They found that the opposition campaign had been restricted and the media coverage was imbalanced, and that the electoral authority had unfairly changed the rules after polls had opened.

Trump joins a short list of leaders who have openly congratulated Erdogan, including Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev and Saudi King Salman.

His congratulations stands in stark contrast to the more cautious tone adopted by European leaders and a statement issued by the US State Department, which acknowledged the results but warned against further repression by the Turkish government of the political opposition.

"We look to the government of Turkey to protect the fundamental rights and freedoms of all its citizens -- regardless of their vote on April 16 -- as guaranteed by the Turkish constitution and in accordance with Turkey's international commitments," the State Department said in a statement.

"Democracies gain strength through respect for diverse points of view, especially on difficult issues."

The Turkish government has been widely condemned by Western nations for its repression of opposition figures following a failed military coup last year.

"The tight referendum result shows how deeply divided Turkish society is and that means a big responsibility for the Turkish leadership and for President Erdogan personally," Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel and Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel said in a joint statement, calling for a "respectful dialogue" in Ankara with the opposition and all parts of Turkish society.

Erdogan's margin of victory in the referendum was razor-thin. Despite a state of emergency and a widespread crackdown on dissent, he succeeded in persuading only 51.4% of voters to back his constitutional upheaval.

The French government said it would "follow with great care" the international monitors' final report in coming weeks, particularly in relation to a reported last-minute change of rules by the electoral boards to allow ballots that had not been officially stamped. The change has raise concerns of "ballot-stuffing" -- where extra votes are cast illegally to manipulate results.

"Only the Turks can decide their political organization. But figures already published show that Turkish society is divided on this planned important reforms," it said, calling for "a free and sincere dialogue" in Turkey among all components of political and social life.

Erdogan has lashed back at the OSCE international monitors' initial findings, telling them to "know their place," Reuters reports.

He said that Turkey did not "see, hear or acknowledge" the observer mission's reports and accused some European countries of showing more opposition to the constitutional changes than Turkey's own opposition parties.

Relations between Turkey and Europe's powerhouse nations have come under strain over Erdogan's comments that he would seek the restoration of the death penalty -- a move that would sink Turkey's long-stalled bid to join the European Union.

"We have said this over and over in my speeches. As I said this will come before the parliament and if it is passed from the parliament, I would approve this. I would confirm. Why? Because we do not have the authority to forgive the murders of our martyrs," Erdogan said at a rally Monday.

[Valmy]

I...see...

Yeah I have nothing.

[Valmy]

First of all, isn't Gulen an imam? I know "Gulenist" is used by the Turkish government on anyone with a dissenting opinion (or look on their face, or just standing in the way of somebody's promotion at the local town council), but why have WE started referring to Gulenists as beacons of democracy?

I do because they ones I know are out there fighting for education, democracy, and interfaith understanding. Why you are is your business.

And actually it is not even that I necessarily support Gulen himself, frankly I know little about him. I just support the good work my friends do who claim to be part of his movement.