Leftist economic ideas are based on the worst human emotions, the UK edition

[Sheilbh]

Which industries should be nationalized?

Railways, utilities and we should make sure there's a significant state holding in BAE.

That's all. I'm 50-50 on telephone network and possibly fibreoptic network.

[Neil]

Which industries should be nationalized?

Railways, utilities and we should make sure there's a significant state holding in BAE.

That's all. I'm 50-50 on telephone network and possibly fibreoptic network.

Infrastructure and defence.  The two absolute cornerstones of a state.  Makes sense.

I approve of your plan.

[crazy canuck]

Which industries should be nationalized?

Railways, utilities and we should make sure there's a significant state holding in BAE.

That's all. I'm 50-50 on telephone network and possibly fibreoptic network.

I am not sure that qualifies you as a socialist... 

[CountDeMoney]

That's all. I'm 50-50 on telephone network and possibly fibreoptic network.

When Comcast, AT & T and Verizon are the free market alternatives, I'll take Der Statfon.

[DGuller]

Flat tax is de facto regressive as the basic cost of living is the same for everyone, and with pure flat tax there is no tax-free amount.

None of these things mean low income people pay a higher % of income.

This is basic math people.

Really?  If one person has to spend their entire monthly income just to make ends meet, and another only spends 5% of their monthly income to make ends meet then it would seem to me that that the first person is spending a higher percentage of their income on a sales tax (which is a flat tax), then the second person.

Sales tax is not considered flat.  It is not an income tax at all, so it's neither flat nor progressive.  That said, it is recognized fairly widely that it is rather regressive, unless a whole lot of basic necessities are excluded.

[DGuller]

But of course non of you socialist had the "0% and something else as two tier" in mind when mentioning progressive income tax, so don't try to turn this around

No, of course not.  I think 0% as a first bracket is rather too high.  But, in any case, it shows that proponents of flat tax and progressive taxation aren't really subscribing to different sets of moral values, they're just negotiating over the degree of progressivity.

[crazy canuck]

But of course non of you socialist had the "0% and something else as two tier" in mind when mentioning progressive income tax, so don't try to turn this around

No, of course not.  I think 0% as a first bracket is rather too high.  But, in any case, it shows that proponents of flat tax and progressive taxation aren't really subscribing to different sets of moral values, they're just negotiating over the degree of progressivity.

[Admiral Yi]

Different viewpoints on the optimal level of progressivity entail differing moral perspectives.

[Valmy]

Different viewpoints on the optimal level of progressivity entail differing moral perspectives.

This is why the guy calling for 5% gets called a communist dictator and the guy calling for 3% gets called a heartless laissez-faire monster?  Ah modern politics.

[Razgovory]

Flat tax is de facto regressive as the basic cost of living is the same for everyone, and with pure flat tax there is no tax-free amount.

None of these things mean low income people pay a higher % of income.

This is basic math people.

Really?  If one person has to spend their entire monthly income just to make ends meet, and another only spends 5% of their monthly income to make ends meet then it would seem to me that that the first person is spending a higher percentage of their income on a sales tax (which is a flat tax), then the second person.

Sales tax is not considered flat.  It is not an income tax at all, so it's neither flat nor progressive.  That said, it is recognized fairly widely that it is rather regressive, unless a whole lot of basic necessities are excluded.

I thought this was what Marty was getting at.  A sales tax is a de facto flat tax though, since everyone pays the same.  So under this system a person who must spend more of their money just to live is in fact paying a higher percent of their money on taxes, correct?

[Admiral Yi]

No Raz.

[DGuller]

Going by definitions, sales tax is not a flat tax.  The term "flat tax" is only applied to income.  Sales tax is defacto a regressive tax, and is facto a consumption tax.

[Razgovory]

Going by definitions, sales tax is not a flat tax.  The term "flat tax" is only applied to income.  Sales tax is defacto a regressive tax, and is facto a consumption tax.

I thought a flat tax was tax that applied to everyone equally and not graduated therefor "flat".  Sales taxes function like that correct?

Perhaps Yi can walk me through how a person who spends all of their income does not pays a higher percentage of money on sales taxes then a person who spends only a quarter of their income.

[garbon]

It is flat tax rate.

[Admiral Yi]

I thought a flat tax was tax that applied to everyone equally and not graduated therefor "flat".  Sales taxes function like that correct?

Perhaps Yi can walk me through how a person who spends all of their income does not pays a higher percentage of money on sales taxes then a person who spends only a quarter of their income.

I get the very strong impression your being purposely obtuse.