Canadian Language Education Questions

[Grey Fox]

Hey!

We can kill Indians as well as any American.

[The Brain]

Hey!

We can kill Indians as well as any American.

Welcome! You have reached the NSA watch list. Your post is important to us, so please remain at your computer and someone will be with you shortly.

[Grey Fox]

Hey!

We can kill Indians as well as any American.

Welcome! You have reached the NSA watch list. Your post is important to us, so please remain at your computer and someone will be with you shortly.

I am a Canadian, it's called the CCSA.

also, you are a nuclear industry worker. If there is a list, you are on it.

Bomb. President.

See there, now we're on a list.

[Martinus]

Holy shit Carl is in Grade 4?  Damn.

They grow fast. 

Don't tell grallon. 

[Syt]

The key difference Marty, the very key that in your ignorance you are missing, because Poles have not experienced it, is this:

Poland does not have the history of strangulation and oppressive subjugation by foreign powers that Quebec has had, so you just don't understand their need to protect their precious fluids from the enslaving Canucks.

If you lived in a nation that has experienced true foreign oppression in its history like Quebec, you would understand.

POTM!

[Jacob]

The key difference Marty, the very key that in your ignorance you are missing, because Poles have not experienced it, is this:

Poland does not have the history of strangulation and oppressive subjugation by foreign powers that Quebec has had, so you just don't understand their need to protect their precious fluids from the enslaving Canucks.

If you lived in a nation that has experienced true foreign oppression in its history like Quebec, you would understand.

Strong work

[viper37]

For example, I work for an international law firm and while we do speak Polish to each other in the Warsaw office (and, obviously, when meeting Polish clients) we do have to speak English to serve foreign clients (and this means that, in practice, most of my work, especially in writing, is done in English).

If your boss told you that from now on, everyone speaks English and Polish is forbidden, you would submit and smile?
I wouldn't, for sure.

Sure, you could argue whether a requirement like that would be proportional in a store, but I suppose if a large part of your clientele did not speak Polish, I see it justified. Again, I am not sure what you are arguing - are you saying that a shop in Quebec should not be able to require English capability from its employees?

It should not be able for force english at work.  Having english necessary to communicate with clients, suppliers or another branch is a totally different matter than having the entire work environment in another language, especially when it's necessity is not really demonstrated.

I always require bilinguism of my office employees, but that's a totally different thing than forcing them to work in english.

Not sure if it is racist, just dumb. 

Does Poland finance public education in Russian and Ukrainian?

I don't see a problem with foreign language signs on private stores.

I see a problem with it just as I see a problem with a topless women on an advertising near an elementary school.
It is improper and it destroys a particular cachet, that is all.

Being French is a distinctive advantage in North America, it we look all the same as Ottawa or Toronto, there's really no reason for tourists to visit.

In Poland, the word "sale" has become quite common to display (without the Polish more mouthful of an equivalent "wyprzedaz") and noone (well, perhaps, with the exception of a few nationalist linguists) has a problem with that. Especially when you are running a store where your clientele is either bilingual (like many modern Poles) or does not speak Polish but speaks English (like most tourists), it just seems more efficient.

English isn't really a threat to Poland.  What is the probability that a part of your country will be solely english speaking within 2-3 generations?   

Obviously, at least those Poles who subscribe to cable already get most TV in a foreign language. And, of course, online, it is pretty common to have foreign language advertising.

totally not the same.

Ok, but again, these examples are completely different (with the possible exception of the "speak white or get out"). If I see an ad on TV that features a heterosexual family or shows, e.g., a heterosexual male, I may end up thinking that the ad is obviously not targeted at me (and, if the company at the same time makes a statement, like the pasta guy some time ago, that they will never show a gay couple in one of their ads, I may consider taking my business elsewhere and boycotting them) but I don't think it would be appropriate to require every company to make two ads, one with heteros and one for gays. 

That's not really the same, again.
And taking "your business elsewhere" wasn't really an option when these laws voted.  Even later, even today, you just won't see English Canada letting a Quebec based company take over their big corporations.  Canadian Pacific and the Toronto Stock Exchange are good examples of that.  With a little help from the Feds, they were able to successfully resist these take overs.  Nowadays, both corporations are owned by foreigners instead of Canadians, but at least, they don't speak french.

So, major corporations are based in Ontario, Toronto area.  Not the most french friendly place in the country.
Can't exactly retaliate against the Canadians the same way, the Feds will be all over us in a minute.

So what's left?  The ugly reality of having a government forced to define basic rights.  It's stupid, be we are there.  And with the help of these laws, and the development of a financial sector based in Quebec, we were able to create our own "Quebec inc".

As it is now, it's still easier for a Quebec based corporations to expand in the US than in Canada.

Sears in an American company so it is natural that internal communication would be done in English (and, to be honest, based from what I have seen from my clients, multinationals based in France, Germany or Spain also, in most cases, use English for internal communication).

Check past employment offers from Paradox.  Knowledge of Swedish is required.  Not because they are totally closed to the outside world, but just because that is their work environment.  They are a sovereign nation, they can do whatever they want.

And for the record, while knowledge of Polish would probably help an expat living in Warsaw, if there was a choice, going for English rather than Polish would give him or her better employment opportunities. Does it suck that Polish is not a universal language of international commerce? Perhaps (but this means an English speaking Pole knows on average one more language than a Brit). But it would be mindboggling to me to try and legislate that away somehow.

Your country, your choice.  My country, my choice.
Polish is not endangered by English, for now.  It's not even surrounded by english speaking country.
If Russia swallows Ukraine and a Russian speaking minority starts appearing in Poland, I remain unconvinced that Poland would accomodate them by translating everything and subsidizing russians schools.

[viper37]

If you lived in a nation that has experienced true foreign oppression in its history like Quebec, you would understand.

Yes, yes, the British Empire has always been a benevolent force in history, never raising its sword against a defenless nation, always acting in the preservation of good, social order, always defending the widow and the orphan
I still wonder why Americans chose to leave such a beautiful empire and wage such a bloody war.   They must have been stupid, or something.

[viper37]

I don't have a problem with Quebec insisting that French gets a level playing field.  It's the idea that English advertising (e.g.) is somehow evil that jumps the shark.  I have lived in neighborhoods where a substantial portion of the advertising was in Spanish, and I wasn't even tempted to forget how to speak English.

80% of Americans have English has their mother tongue.  95% claim to speak English very well.

Tell you what.  When Canada reaches a point where 95% of its population speak French very well, I'll be the first to support repelling our language laws.

[viper37]

Indeed. Which is why I find the entire thing kind of amusing. The idea that people living in Canada are oppressed is just...funny. I mean...it is fucking Canada. Is there a less oppressive nation in the history of mankind than Canada?

Well, the USA is the land of the free, apparently, and you fought against the English monarch's tyranny, wich is still our sovereign...
So, I guess that I live in a non free country...

[Valmy]

If you lived in a nation that has experienced true foreign oppression in its history like Quebec, you would understand.

Yes, yes, the British Empire has always been a benevolent force in history, never raising its sword against a defenless nation, always acting in the preservation of good, social order, always defending the widow and the orphan
I still wonder why Americans chose to leave such a beautiful empire and wage such a bloody war.   They must have been stupid, or something.

Because we were British.  British people are stubborn prideful people who demand certain rights and privileges.  The British government didn't like that so off we went.

[Valmy]

Indeed. Which is why I find the entire thing kind of amusing. The idea that people living in Canada are oppressed is just...funny. I mean...it is fucking Canada. Is there a less oppressive nation in the history of mankind than Canada?

Well, the USA is the land of the free, apparently, and you fought against the English monarch's tyranny, wich is still our sovereign...
So, I guess that I live in a non free country...

The British Monarchy actually had very little to do with the Revolution but for constitutional reasons that was who we held responsible.  To blame Parliament for what Parliament was doing would be to admit they had some authority over us.

[Valmy]

Tell you what.  When Canada reaches a point where 95% of its population speak French very well, I'll be the first to support repelling our language laws.

Did you mean Quebec there?

[garbon]

Indeed. Which is why I find the entire thing kind of amusing. The idea that people living in Canada are oppressed is just...funny. I mean...it is fucking Canada. Is there a less oppressive nation in the history of mankind than Canada?

Well, the USA is the land of the free, apparently, and you fought against the English monarch's tyranny, wich is still our sovereign...
So, I guess that I live in a non free country...

The British Monarchy actually had very little to do with the Revolution but for constitutional reasons that was who we held responsible.  To blame Parliament for what Parliament was doing would be to admit they had some authority over us.

At any rate, what does all of this have to do with the tyrant of all tyrants, Elizabeth II?

[Barrister]

Indeed. Which is why I find the entire thing kind of amusing. The idea that people living in Canada are oppressed is just...funny. I mean...it is fucking Canada. Is there a less oppressive nation in the history of mankind than Canada?

Well, the USA is the land of the free, apparently, and you fought against the English monarch's tyranny, wich is still our sovereign...
So, I guess that I live in a non free country...

The British Monarchy actually had very little to do with the Revolution but for constitutional reasons that was who we held responsible.  To blame Parliament for what Parliament was doing would be to admit they had some authority over us.

At any rate, what does all of this have to do with the tyrant of all tyrants, Elizabeth II?

Don't let her public demeanour fool you.

As an Agent for the Crown, I can tell you she's one harsh mistress.