Is suicide really selfish?

[garbon]

When Courtney Love read that suicide note on tv in 1993 she ended by chanting asshole asshole asshole at her late husband. I'm guessing Cobain wasn't the only one to blame there.

And no, I think attacking someone for committing suicide is victim-blaming.

Even the most well-adjusted responsible people have their limits. Even Ned Flanders would lash out and kill a man if pushed to enough desperation.

I don't think it is victim blaming to call it selfish.

[MadImmortalMan]

Yeah maybe not. But I'd rather call it desperate.

[garbon]

Desperate? No, I think it is just honest.

[MadImmortalMan]

Possibly so. I don't think the two conflict.

[alfred russel]

Is suicide really selfish?

This is a good question, but I also wonder: Is masturbation really selfish? 

[Eddie Teach]

Is suicide really painless?

[garbon]

Possibly so. I don't think the two conflict.

Oh you are saying suicide is out of desperation. I thought you were saying people calling it selfish were desperate.

[Viking]

Is suicide really painless?

Does it bring on many changes?

[Tonitrus]

He's back, wow.

Only those people who throw themselves in front of trains are selfish.
If you can do it in a manner that doesn't inconvenience anyone then its fine.

Well, pretty much the only way that won't eventually inconvenience someone is to go out and be eaten by bears.

And even that might if the bear gets gas.

Even then the police will get a report of a missing hiker, have to go looking for the person.  Or if human remains are discovered you have to go and recover them and do an autopsy to try and determine cause of death.

And that's a fair point.

Suicide is an extremely selfish act.  But selfish acts cannot always be categorized as black/white evil acts.  We do lots of things everyday that are selfish, but may accidentally/indirectly help others (mostly economically).

And as you said, the way our society is built, having a great value in life, any attempt to commit suicide will ultimately result in the expenditure of communal/government assets to find/solve/rescue.  And usually whoever finds your lifeless corpse may be sickened/traumatized/saddened.

And if you have family/children for whom you are responsible, then it easily goes from being just a selfish act to a very negligent and irresponsible one.  Even if if the reasons that precipitated the act might be understandable.

As mentioned, only that lone person with no family or paper-trail, who manages to find a volcano to fall into, might truly be able to call their suicide a purely non-harmful, unobtrusive, selfish act.

Unless that volcano god finds out you weren't really a virgin...

[LaCroix]

So, every time someone commits suicide you get those voices that "suicide is selfish" etc.

But is it really? Isn't it more selfish to expect people living in pain and anguish - be it physical or mental - to continue living for our pleasure, so they can be in our lives, or worse still, make more movies or entertain us?

Discuss.

Edit: For the record, I am not contemplating suicide. I just find it to be a valid option.

it can be selfish, but the concept isn't selfish. it's the same with divorce, just on a more extreme scale

[LaCroix]

We're not autonomous, independent individuals. We're bound by all sorts of social connections to people around us and in our past (and, indeed, future).

if this were true, there would be no suicide. people commit suicide, however, therefore we are independent individuals. society tries to keep individualism in check, and sometimes it fails. for acts like suicide, i think it's a balance of evils. the person's enjoyment versus the family. if the person has obligations to a child, i think he should stick it out until at least the child has matured. but, at the end of the day, people die.

preventing someone from taking his own life if he truly wishes to die (as opposed to spontaneous acts on impulse) due to a selfish desire to keep that person alive for one's own sake is the worse evil, imo.

[garbon]

preventing someone from taking his own life if he truly wishes to die (as opposed to spontaneous acts on impulse) due to a selfish desire to keep that person alive for one's own sake is the worse evil, imo.

Well aren't you a twisted little man?

[LaCroix]

Well aren't you a twisted little man?

it's not about being twisted, it's about what makes sense. i mean, think about it. a child doesn't want his parents to get divorced, but sometimes divorce is really better for the parents. there's always going to be a selfishness element when dictating other peoples' lives. as mentioned, i think it's right to stop a friend's suicide attempt because his girlfriend just broke up with him or whatever. but, some people are born differently, and those people reach the conclusion after many years of suffering that they wish to die. it's selfish to prevent it, and there are some circumstances where i don't think it should necessarily be prevented.

[garbon]

I don't think it would even be fair to say that for most suicides it is better for that person to be committing suicide.

[LaCroix]

I don't think it would even be fair to say that for most suicides it is better for that person to be committing suicide.

i'm not saying that. most suicides probably result from impulse. most circumstantial suicide is also wrong - financial stress, for example. though, i don't have a problem with suicide as a result of principle. a captain going down with his ship takes courage. same with self-immolation, or someone throwing himself onto a grenade.