The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[PDH]

For those questioning the methods of protest: how does a group effectively act for change when a majority of whites poll that they do not believe that there is a problem of how police treat blacks as opposed to whites?

[OttoVonBismarck]

For those questioning the methods of protest: how does a group effectively act for change when a majority of whites poll that they do not believe that there is a problem of how police treat blacks as opposed to whites?

I don't think they do to be honest. I think the age of protests having a meaningful impact are over. America is too into snapchat and the 5 second news cycle, and because protests never spawn anything else meaningful now they are largely pointless. All the big recent historical protest movements have had no discernible impact whatsoever. The anti-WTO protests, the huge protests against us going into Iraq, the occupy wall street protests, and now this.

I just think culturally people acting stupid in the street doesn't have much of an impact in the United States any longer. It's more of a thing to laugh at or be annoyed at, but no one treats protesters seriously.

I speculate a major part of that is the people running protests appear to just enjoy running protests. They have no higher political calling or aptitude. MLK was involved in protests but also was involved in meetings with LBJ, because he was a serious political operator. None of the recent protests movements have had a leader who could be in the same room as a serious politician, because they'd rather use that opportunity to scream at them, spit on them, and be dragged away by security.

[Admiral Yi]

For those questioning the methods of protest: how does a group effectively act for change when a majority of whites poll that they do not believe that there is a problem of how police treat blacks as opposed to whites?

First thing I would do is paint it as a universal problem, not black-only.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think stuff like the Everytown for Gun Safety initiative is an example of how to effect change. You get professional lobbyists, generate monetary donations, and go to work from there. EGS has had some wins, some of the first in ages, on gun control, and they didn't get there by screaming or laying in the interstate.

[Razgovory]

For those questioning the methods of protest: how does a group effectively act for change when a majority of whites poll that they do not believe that there is a problem of how police treat blacks as opposed to whites?

With a specific goal in mind.  Protest is the hammer that drives in the nails of law and policy. With out the policy or law you just sitting around beating wood.  Let's say your group writes a law requiring that anyone trained to be a police officer must have a four year degree in criminal justice (just as an example).  Once you find a sympathetic legislator to introduce the bill, you need to weigh every action to see if this helps or hurts get this law passed.  For instance, if you are planning to give a speech on how evil Jews are, you should stop and ask yourself, does this actually help us?  If you don't see it helping you, perhaps you should table the speech until a more appropriate time.

[MadImmortalMan]

For those questioning the methods of protest: how does a group effectively act for change when a majority of whites poll that they do not believe that there is a problem of how police treat blacks as opposed to whites?

First thing I would do is paint it as a universal problem, not black-only.

It seems likely to me that if the cops-not-following-proper-procedures problem were addressed as its own thing, then blacks would benefit disproportionately just as they are currently being negatively affected disproportionately.

[LaCroix]

it's when and under what situations cops should shoot people.

what do you expect when a significant portion of the population carry inherently dangerous weapons? it all stems from that. the evolution of terry stops (to promote police--and public, but mostly police--safety), searches incident to arrest, etc. couple this with criminal cultures that doesn't exist to nearly the same extent as in other countries that similarly allow guns (finland, switzerland). criminal cultures that exist because the US is a freaking rich country, among other factors.

I mean, there are consequences of allowing most people in the US to purchase these dangerous weapons. of course police are going to be allowed to respond in ways that other nations that don't have this condition simply aren't going to allow. if a cop kills a black guy because he hates blacks, then that's horrible. but I don't see any evidence of that in most of these shootings. to me, it seems more like (1) cops are in dangerous situations or have a history of being in dangerous situations / told about or get a sense of how dangerous it is in X community they patrol, (2) being allowed to respond with deadly force, then (3) mistakes happening because of course mistakes are going to happen. these mistakes are broadcasted across the nation and used as further evidence that there's a Big Problem in the US.

if you restrict cops' ability to use deadly force, then you're going to see more dead cops. if you don't restrict their ability to use deadly force, you see dead civilians when mistakes happen. behind all this, america is a gun society--that's a fact. your question seems to imply there's an easy answer to this when there isn't. it's why BLM is kind of ridiculous.

[Admiral Yi]

Your answer seems to suggest that every individual cop in the US is responds exactly the same to potentially dangerous situations, and that deaths are an uncontrollable random variable.

[LaCroix]

that deaths are an uncontrollable random variable.

cops aren't robots, they're human. of course they're going to make mistakes, especially when they're in extremely tense situations because their lives are on the line. those tense situations make them more prone to make mistakes. are the mistakes entirely uncontrollable? no, you can make them more comfortable through better protection (and less likely to make mistakes) with technological advances, but we can't make them invincible. a cop in a dangerous neighborhood can die to a random 911 call, and they know it.

[LaCroix]

look at the numbers. US has nation of 318 million, rounded down. there are 240 million 911 calls. there were 986 people killed by police last year. how many were caused by mistakes? etc., etc. you break the numbers down and you get an insanely small percentage of people killed by mistakes. you're never going to reduce it to 0%, not with the factors US police deal with. by no means are they perfect, but I don't see concrete evidence that there's a big problem in the US.

[Admiral Yi]

So your position is that the *only* way to reduce the incidence of mistakes is to increase the safety of the police?

[LaCroix]

So your position is that the *only* way to reduce the incidence of mistakes is to increase the safety of the police?

I don't know current policing standards, but assuming they're effective given this is 2016 and based on the already mentioned factors unique (?) to the US police force, then yes.

[Lettow77]

There was a BLM protest in Memphis that was resolved peacefully a couple hours ago. There was a festive spirit to many of the protesters as they frolicked in Beale Street, but a radical element made an unplanned shift to the Hernando De Soto Bridge, blocking traffic trying to cross state lines across the Mississippi river. (I spied some outside agitators in video footage- it may have been at their instigation.)

The police director was very humane and calm throughout the situation, walking among the crowd individually to try and convince them to disperse. He was assisted in his efforts by one Pastor Kyles, who though he came to protest himself, appealed to the crowd to adhere to peace and end obstruction of the bridge.

It was a wonderful evening for Memphis. The jubilant orange braids, banners and livery of Memphis's most respected haunts were there; The religious community conducted itself admirably, while the police acted with restraint and humanity to their fellow men. I was anxious when I heard the news, never wanting to believe the poisonous atmosphere of other cities could infect the beautiful river city, but was very happy to see the racial harmony and peace of Memphis upheld within my expectations.

[dps]

cops aren't robots, they're human. of course they're going to make mistakes, especially when they're in extremely tense situations because their lives are on the line. those tense situations make them more prone to make mistakes. are the mistakes entirely uncontrollable? no, you can make them more comfortable through better protection (and less likely to make mistakes) with technological advances, but we can't make them invincible. a cop in a dangerous neighborhood can die to a random 911 call, and they know it.

I don't think there's a technological solution.    You want to make them feel safer and more comfortable, I'd say training, not technology, is the answer.  Oh, I suppose you could put every cop inside a tank, and that would make it much less likely they'd get killed on the job, but it would probably increase their paranoia, not decrease it.  It would certainly increase the alienation of the police from the rest of the community, and frankly I don't see how they could do most of their job from inside a tank--kind of hard to take a tank to serve a warrant at a 3rd-floor apartment, or investigate a domestic disturbance there.

[jimmy olsen]

https://youtu.be/lBoK_73NMJs?t=547