The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[lustindarkness]

Bike helmets, seat belts, walking to school alone, etc... the list is endless.

We even had a set of lawn darts! 

I loved those things!

[Berkut]

Fair enough, but you can go too far the other way.  You may think that you're more different from the average than you really are.  It's the other drivers that are idiots, you'll never cause an accident.  I don't know how many people think "I may shoot myself one day, let's see how it goes", or "I don't want to fly into homicidal rage today and kill my family, but I like to keep my options open", or "My son may be clever enough to get to my gun, but oh well, whatever happens happens".

I think the people who leave their loaded revolvers on their refrigerator for their 6 year old to find don't think about it at all.

If you ARE thinking about it, you probably already way down on the risk scale.

Of course you can think you are not part of a overall group, but that just means you are doing a bad job of self evaluation. The point remains that stats that are based on overly broad groups are poor ways of assessing the risk for specific people.

My cousin got married a couple years ago. He had just entered the army at 18, and married his childhood girlfriend. He was stationed across the country, and he was so sure they were totally in love and could overcome any difficiulties, and getting married shortly after she graduated from high school and then both of them moving away from home to a military base while figuring out how to live with another human being would all work out fine.

Of course he is divorced now. And we all told him, as gently as we could, when he was going into this that the odds were radically stacked against him - that marriages like his almost never work out. Sometimes they do, of course.

But going into the marriage, do I think he had a 50-50 shot? Nope. I thought 9 out of 10 of those marriages are doomed, and my best hope for him was that he doesn't get her pregnant first. Luckily they did not, and hopefully he (and she) have learned something.

But the point here is that stats that are measured against incredibly braod groups are terrible indicators when in fact we know that we can narrow down our group immensely. The danger of a gun in the home with reasonably self aware and conscientious owners is not zero of course, but it is also almost certainly NOT in the range of "ZOMG YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO KILL SOMEONE YOU LOVE THAN EVER PROTECT YOUSELF!" level that is reflected in these kinds of stories.

I would be much more convinced by a story where a reasonably careful gun owner had a tragic result than stories where a clearly irresponsible and idiotic person has a tragic result.

And like I said, nobody applies that same metric to other dangerous, optional items we routinely have in our homes, like pools or trampolines. How many kids are killed in backyard pools every year?

[Berkut]

Fair enough, but you can go too far the other way.  You may think that you're more different from the average than you really are.  It's the other drivers that are idiots, you'll never cause an accident.  I don't know how many people think "I may shoot myself one day, let's see how it goes", or "I don't want to fly into homicidal rage today and kill my family, but I like to keep my options open", or "My son may be clever enough to get to my gun, but oh well, whatever happens happens".

As an aside, I'm kinda amazed I survived childhood - by today's standards, pretty well everything my family did was horribly, absurdly dangerous. From leaving shotguns and shells lying around in the cabin, to storing old dinamite in the outhouse (used for blowing stumps), through us kids riding in the back of the pickup truck down the highway (because mom wanted to smoke in the cab  ).

It was truly a different time.

I shudder to think of the result if we had ever been in a bad car accident. 5 kids, 2 adults, and zero seatbelts. They probably could not have told where one mangled body ended and the next began....

[lustindarkness]

Add to that, huge heavy cars with barely any crumple zones. I imagine some were ejected a pretty far distance.

[jimmy olsen]

A punishment, well deserved.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/02/los-angeles-jail-beating-sheriff-deputy-convicted

Associated Press in Los Angeles

Monday 2 November 2015 22.01 GMT  Last modified on Monday 2 November 2015 22.03 GMT 

A former Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy was sentenced Monday to eight years in federal prison for supervising the backroom beating of a jail visitor who fellow guards testified was handcuffed on the ground and covered in blood.

US district judge George King ordered former sergeant Eric Gonzalez taken into custody immediately.

Gonzalez, a 15-year veteran of the sheriff's department, was found guilty in June of deprivation of civil rights, conspiracy to violate constitutional rights and falsification of records in the 2011 beating of Gabriel Carrillo. Four other deputies have been convicted in the case and await sentencing, while a fifth was indicted in the case last month.

The convictions in Carrillo's beating are part of a federal investigation of civil rights abuses and corruption at the nation's largest sheriff's department.

Nearly two dozen members of the department, including the former second-in-command, have been charged with crimes ranging from beatings to obstruction of justice.

Prosecutors said Gonzalez, the ranking deputy, supervised Carrillo's "savage beating" in a break room at the Men's Central jail in downtown Los Angeles on 26 February 2011.

Deputies stopped Carrillo, who was at the jail to visit his brother, because he had a cellphone, which is prohibited. The beating began, prosecutors say, when a handcuffed Carrillo commented to a deputy that if he weren't restrained, "it would be a different story".

As Gonzalez watched, deputies threw Carrillo against a refrigerator, took him to the ground, repeatedly punched and kicked him, and pepper sprayed his face. Carrillo was then charged with battery on a custodial officer, resisting and attempted escape during a lawful detention – charges that were later dropped.

Los Angeles County paid Carrillo $1.2m to drop a civil rights lawsuit stemming from the beating.

Federal prosecutors argued that Gonzalez be sentenced to 11 years in prison, saying he abused his position of power and that the case has eroded public trust.

"An aggravated assault with serious bodily injuries is a grave offense," prosecutors wrote. "When such a crime is undertaken by a gang of law enforcement and then covered up as if the victim committed the crime, the harm to important societal interests makes the crime all the more significant."

Gonzalez's attorneys argued for a prison sentence between 24 and 30 months, saying Gonzalez is a good man who worked in a dangerous environment where it's difficult to always get it right.

County jails "are saturated with dangerous and unpredictable individuals", his attorneys wrote. "The fact that deputies occasionally err on the side of using too much force to 'take down' suspects, while not acceptable, is perhaps inevitable given the violent and dangerous milieu in which they work and risk their lives."

Gonzalez already has lost his job, his reputation has been tarnished, and he'll probably never find another job in law enforcement, his attorneys wrote.

"This single mistake in a career characterized by truly excellent public service need not result in a protracted term of incarceration," they wrote. "This case calls for a sentence which, while punitive, allows him to return home to his wife before too much time has passed so he can retool and try to rebuild something out of his life."

[DGuller]

Cop killer shot dead by police:  http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/04/us/fox-lake-illinois-police-officer-joe-gliniewicz/.

[Berkut]

Cop killer shot dead by police:  http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/04/us/fox-lake-illinois-police-officer-joe-gliniewicz/.

hah ha. you very funny guy

[dps]

Gonzalez already has lost his job, his reputation has been tarnished, and he’ll probably never find another job in law enforcement, his attorneys wrote.

Well, let's fucking hope not.

[Habbaku]

Cop killer shot dead by police:  http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/04/us/fox-lake-illinois-police-officer-joe-gliniewicz/.

[DontSayBanana]

Well, let's fucking hope not.

Thankfully, in this day and age, it's a little harder to gloss over a 5-8 year stint in prison during interviews.

[jimmy olsen]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/louisiana-cops-kill-6-year-old-boy-after-car-chase-n457401

Police in Louisiana shot and killed a 6-year-old boy Tuesday after opening fire on a car during a nighttime chase, authorities said.

The boy's father, who was at the wheel, was also hit, and was hospitalized in critical condition, authorities said.

The shooting unfolded at 9:30 p.m. CT, after officers in the city of Marksville opened fire at the conclusion of the chase, state police said.

The state police did not explain the reason for the chase, or the circumstances that caused the officers to shoot at the car.

Local NBC affiliate WDSU reported that the car backed into the officers on a dead-end street.

The station quoted the Avoyelles Parish coroner's office as saying the boy was accidentally shot by the officers.

The office identified the boy as Jeremy David Mardis and said he was shot five times in the head and chest. His father was identified as Chris Few.

[Habbaku]

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-cadet-turns-cop-turning-body-cam-pummeling-victim/

Albuquerque, NM — One of Albuquerque's finest was arrested Friday afternoon after he was caught turning his body camera off to beat a man during a service call.

Officer Cedric Greer, 24, was arrested by New Mexico State Police after video evidence showed him turn his lapel cam off just before beating a man, then turning it back on afterward. According to the report, the video shows his finger reaching for the camera to turn it off.

Witnesses to the assault say that Greer acted without being provoked and that the victim complied with all orders both before and after the attack.

State police issued a statement Friday stating that Greer "battered an individual during a call for service that he was conducting at a local Albuquerque hotel. He struck the individual's head several times with a closed fist and then delivered several strikes to the individual's chest causing bruising.  Witnesses claimed the individual was cooperative with Mr. Greer before and after the battery."

Greer was arrested for misdemeanor aggravated battery because a police cadet turned him in after witnessing the incident.

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-cadet-turns-cop-turning-body-cam-pummeling-victim/#CmQEEClbhO8odbF9.99

[OttoVonBismarck]

The two Louisiana cops were arrested tonight for killing the six year old. Simple fact--police should only fire into a car if they're being fired on from said car. Many police departments already prohibit firing into cars (except in return fire situations.) The only ones that do not are operating off of outdated theories. At one point in time it was felt that you could justifiably shoot at a car to try and kill the driver, if the car was trying to run you down. This would be a type of "self defense" and a matter of "officer safety." But they've researched/gamed this out a bit and found that the reality is it's essentially not true. It's safer for the officer to try to dodge the car and try to get somewhere that the driver can't reach them than it is to try and disable the car by shooting at the driver. Particularly because of simple physics--you can shoot a driver right through the head and his 3,000+ lb weapon can still kill you, the car doesn't immediately freeze in place if you get a kill shot on the driver, so you have to try and effect an escape of sorts either way. When you factor in many cars have wholly innocent bystanders in them, who may not be willing participants in the driver's shenanigans, it's an obvious call that you need to prohibit firing into cars in a quixotic attempt to kill the driver before he runs you over.

[Tonitrus]

Cops fail to put down injured bull...put down rancher instead.

Rancher 'needlessly' shot by police in bull incident, family says
Published November 08, 2015FoxNews.com

An Idaho rancher was "needlessly" killed by two deputies at the scene of an accident last week, according to family members present when he was gunned down.

Jack Yantis died Nov. 1 in a murky exchange of gunfire with two Adams County deputies along a dark, open stretch of highway. Yantis had responded to the scene after one of his bulls was struck by a station wagon after sundown. This much is agreed upon: at some point, something went wrong and Yantis was killed during an incident in which he and the two deputies all fired their weapons, according to authorities.

But Yantis' wife, Donna, and nephew, Rowdy Paradis, told the Idaho Statesman on Saturday that the actions of police directly led to the death of the 62-year-old Council resident.

"In this case, I stood 10 feet away and watched two deputies escalate the situation and needlessly kill a man," Paradis told the Statesman.

The family's version of events begins with Yantis being informed of the accident around 6:45 p.m. An Adams County dispatcher told the rancher he'd have to go down to the highway and put down his 2,500-pound black Gelbvieh bull, whose leg was injured by the crash and who was becoming agitated. As Yantis was making the necessary arrangements to take care of the animal, the deputies began shooting at the bull, but failed to kill it, instead reportedly hitting it in the gut, prolonging its misery and causing the bull to become even more distressed.

Yantis finally got his .204-caliber rifle and stood about 2 feet from the bull, prepared to shoot it when "one cop turned around and grabbed [Yantis'] shoulder and jerked him backward," according to Paradis. The rifle's barrel was still pointed at the ground at this point, the family contends, though Paradis does allow that the gun may have fired, perhaps accidentally. A deputy said later that he had been grazed by a bullet, according to a family friend also present, who contends he didn't see any "blood," "torn thread" or "powder burn." The official statement on the incident also alleges that one of the deputies suffered a minor injury.

That discharge prompted the deputies to turn their guns on Yantis, shooting him in the chest and abdomen, ultimately killing him, the family said. When Donna and Paradis approached Yantis, the deputies "threw us on the middle of Highway 95, searched us and handcuffed us, and wouldn't let us go take care of Jack," Donna said. Paradis said one of the deputies pointed a gun at his head.

During the incident, Donna suffered a heart attack. She was in critical condition for several days before being upgraded to serious.

The bull was left to bleed out on the road, and police ignored their pleas to humanely kill the animal, the family said.

The deputies were wearing body cameras, Adams County Sheriff Ryan Zollman told the Statesman on Thursday, though it's unclear whether they recorded the incident. A dash camera in the deputies' vehicle was not turned on, Zollman said. The investigation is currently in the hands of the Idaho State Police.

"I'm a transparent person, I will give you the facts when I know the facts," Zollman told KTVB. "I'm not hiding anything from anybody."

[Razgovory]

Looks like this story is lighting up all the militia sites.