The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Valmy]

Pity it had to come to this to get authorities to perhaps notice the dangerous destabilizing effects of the militarization of the police forces. Years of people making constructive critiques of the issue and asking for reforms clearly didn't go anywhere or make much of an impact.

[Razgovory]

Pity it had to come to this to get authorities to perhaps notice the dangerous destabilizing effects of the militarization of the police forces. Years of people making constructive critiques of the issue and asking for reforms clearly didn't go anywhere or make much of an impact.

What destabilizing effects are those?

[DGuller]

Pity it had to come to this to get authorities to perhaps notice the dangerous destabilizing effects of the militarization of the police forces. Years of people making constructive critiques of the issue and asking for reforms clearly didn't go anywhere or make much of an impact.

What destabilizing effects are those?

The mindset where citizens become civilians, and when having effective weapons means having an AR-15 in the trunk rather than good community relations.

[Ed Anger]

Pfft. Wussy.

[Berkut]

Pity it had to come to this to get authorities to perhaps notice the dangerous destabilizing effects of the militarization of the police forces. Years of people making constructive critiques of the issue and asking for reforms clearly didn't go anywhere or make much of an impact.

What destabilizing effects are those?

The mindset where citizens become civilians, and when having effective weapons means having an AR-15 in the trunk rather than good community relations.

Indeed.

There is more at work here than just the militarization, of course. The racism involved in what is happening in some of these places has little to do with that directly.

But I think DG is very right here - all this military gear comes along with a military mindset, where there is this culture of "Us vs. Them" in some parts of the police force. Where the civilians become seen not as citizens deserving protection, but rather potential or actual combatants in a war that pits the police against the non-police.

We need good, effective police officers, not soldiers. I do actually think ex-soldiers can make good police officers, and I actually suspect (maybe this is wishful thinking) that the worst police officers are wanna-be soldiers, rather than actual ex-soldiers. But at the end of the day, the culture needs some changing in some of these places where the height of police "cool" is a APC with plenty of automatic weapons.

[Valmy]

There is more at work here than just the militarization, of course. The racism involved in what is happening in some of these places has little to do with that directly.

It is the effect of one upon the other.

[Razgovory]

Pity it had to come to this to get authorities to perhaps notice the dangerous destabilizing effects of the militarization of the police forces. Years of people making constructive critiques of the issue and asking for reforms clearly didn't go anywhere or make much of an impact.

What destabilizing effects are those?

The mindset where citizens become civilians, and when having effective weapons means having an AR-15 in the trunk rather than good community relations.

And this caused the riot?

[Valmy]

And this caused the riot?

Well we have not had major riots like this since the 1960s. Mistrust of the police and authorities also featured there completely coincidentally. Or not so coincidentally.

[Admiral Yi]

O's are playing to an empty house today.  Fans were locked out.

[derspiess]

Seems like a chicken or egg kinda thing.

[grumbler]

Seems like a chicken or egg kinda thing. 

The fans of the militarization of the police would have you believe that, but the militarization of the police pretty clearly isn't related to the threat to the police, and instead is almost entirely a factor of the availability of military equipment and production capability as the military numbers declined with the end of the Cold War.

I agree with berkut; the police these days seem less and less like citizens of the community protecting other citizens of the community from violence and lawlessness, and more and more like an occupying army trying merely to keep some semblance of order.

I think that militarization has also been influenced by the declining number of local police per head of the populace, but I think that that is a secondary effect.

[Valmy]

O's are playing to an empty house today.  Fans were locked out.

Yeah probably the best decision. Wish I could be there. That would be an amazing sight...the game, not the rioting.

[crazy canuck]

Seems like a chicken or egg kinda thing.

Whether the police forces who took the surplus military equipment wanted to play soldier before getting the equipment or whether obtaining the equipment caused them to want to play soldier?

[Martinus]

I hope they kill some of the pigs.

[crazy canuck]

I hope they kill some of the pigs.