The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Barrister]

The problem Seedy, is that the kid is walking in that direction before the car pulls up.  As Malthus said, the police statement makes it sound like the police gave him ample warning which the kid ignored.  That simply didnt happen.

The kid showed a gun in his waistband.  He got shot.  It is unfortunate for the kid and it is unfortunate for the officer that has to live with that. 
The fact that he was 12 and it was a toy are irrelevant to the decision-making process of that officer at that split second.  You do not fuck around with guns. 
......

How many white guys, legally conceal carrying, get killed a year by cops who misinterpret what they're doing with their clothing/jacket?

A. I'm pretty sure 12 years olds can't get concealed carry permits
B. Police were specifically called about a boy with a gun

[Malthus]

The problem Seedy, is that the kid is walking in that direction before the car pulls up.  As Malthus said, the police statement makes it sound like the police gave him ample warning which the kid ignored.  That simply didnt happen.

The kid showed a gun in his waistband.  He got shot.  It is unfortunate for the kid and it is unfortunate for the officer that has to live with that. 
The fact that he was 12 and it was a toy are irrelevant to the decision-making process of that officer at that split second.  You do not fuck around with guns.  Don't see why this is such a difficult concept to understand or appreciate, but then again, I do.  Because everybody else fucking knows better.   

But I am through arguing police responses to inner city gun calls with sanctimonious Canadians and a Pinochet-obsessed Brit.  South America.  Kiss my ass.

How can the fact it is a kid in a playground (as opposed to, say, a masked thug in a bank robbery) not even be relevant to the police choice of response?

I get that the cops could not tell if it was a real gun, but surely context makes some difference here?

[DGuller]

I just watched the video.  It's still isn't clear at all what exactly happened.  However, one thing seems to be clear is that the boy had more than a second to react.  If a cop car is driving right towards you with sirens and lights blazing, and is driving onto the grass, you know they're probably looking for you and looking at you.  What happened next may have been a tragic misunderstanding, but the whole chain of events didn't start with the cops.

[CountDeMoney]

How many white guys, legally conceal carrying, get killed a year by cops who misinterpret what they're doing with their clothing/jacket?

I don't know the statistics, but when derspiess gets shot hopefully he'll post about it.

[Razgovory]

And most likely trying to show them it was just a toy

And you say that based on what exactly?

That he had a toy.  It seems unlikely to attempt to show that he had a real gun since he didn't have one, or to shoot the police due to the lack of a real gun.

[Razgovory]

I just watched the video.  It's still isn't clear at all what exactly happened.  However, one thing seems to be clear is that the boy had more than a second to react.  If a cop car is driving right towards you with sirens and lights blazing, and is driving onto the grass, you know they're probably looking for you and looking at you.  What happened next may have been a tragic misunderstanding, but the whole chain of events didn't start with the cops.

That would not be my first thought.  Mine would be that I was in the way, or that they were after someone.  Now admittedly I don't have the clear headedness of a gradeschooler.

[mongers]

I just watched the video.  It's still isn't clear at all what exactly happened.  However, one thing seems to be clear is that the boy had more than a second to react.  If a cop car is driving right towards you with sirens and lights blazing, and is driving onto the grass, you know they're probably looking for you and looking at you.  What happened next may have been a tragic misunderstanding, but the whole chain of events didn't start with the cops.

So not quite enough time to allow you to type those four words.

[DGuller]

I just watched the video.  It's still isn't clear at all what exactly happened.  However, one thing seems to be clear is that the boy had more than a second to react.  If a cop car is driving right towards you with sirens and lights blazing, and is driving onto the grass, you know they're probably looking for you and looking at you.  What happened next may have been a tragic misunderstanding, but the whole chain of events didn't start with the cops.

That would not be my first thought.  Mine would be that I was in the way, or that they were after someone.  Now admittedly I don't have the clear headedness of a gradeschooler.

Being 12 doesn't make you a mental cripple.  You're old enough to know that cops can shoot at you mistakenly if they think you have a gun.

[crazy canuck]

And most likely trying to show them it was just a toy

And you say that based on what exactly?

The fact he didnt have a real gun and if the police report is accurate they were yelling at him about a gun.

[DGuller]

Speaking of videos, is there dashcam footage?  I would imagine that in most cop cars the camera is always on if your lights are on.  That should provide the audio part of the story that is sorely missing.

[crazy canuck]

I just watched the video.  It's still isn't clear at all what exactly happened.  However, one thing seems to be clear is that the boy had more than a second to react.  If a cop car is driving right towards you with sirens and lights blazing, and is driving onto the grass, you know they're probably looking for you and looking at you.  What happened next may have been a tragic misunderstanding, but the whole chain of events didn't start with the cops.

I suppose if you live in a police state.  Most other people who are not doing anything wrong (like this kid) would wonder why the police are there.

[CountDeMoney]

How can the fact it is a kid in a playground (as opposed to, say, a masked thug in a bank robbery) not even be relevant to the police choice of response?

I get that the cops could not tell if it was a real gun, but surely context makes some difference here?

A gun is just as dangerous at a playground as it is in bank robbery. 

But this is the American-Canadian disconnect at work here, where your idea of some idyllic sylvan playground full of happy children and unicorns is different than the reality of a playground in east Cleveland. 

[CountDeMoney]

Speaking of videos, is there dashcam footage?  I would imagine that in most cop cars the camera is always on if your lights are on.  That should provide the audio part of the story that is sorely missing.

It's Cleveland PD.  No dashcams.

[Tonitrus]

I just watched the video.  It's still isn't clear at all what exactly happened.  However, one thing seems to be clear is that the boy had more than a second to react.  If a cop car is driving right towards you with sirens and lights blazing, and is driving onto the grass, you know they're probably looking for you and looking at you.  What happened next may have been a tragic misunderstanding, but the whole chain of events didn't start with the cops.

Looking at the video, it doesn't appear they were running up with lights (cannot tell about sirens).  And I think hard-charging up onto the grass right into things was probably a bad call on the cops' part.

Kid was pretty irresponsible playing about with a toy gun like he did...but I also have to remember my childhood.  We'd play with battery-powered water guns, black-plastic (no caps) assault weapons (they were modeled off of real guns too!) that looked like something ISIS would envy having.  Cops today would not have loved seeing them.

[Razgovory]

I just watched the video.  It's still isn't clear at all what exactly happened.  However, one thing seems to be clear is that the boy had more than a second to react.  If a cop car is driving right towards you with sirens and lights blazing, and is driving onto the grass, you know they're probably looking for you and looking at you.  What happened next may have been a tragic misunderstanding, but the whole chain of events didn't start with the cops.

That would not be my first thought.  Mine would be that I was in the way, or that they were after someone.  Now admittedly I don't have the clear headedness of a gradeschooler.

Being 12 doesn't make you a mental cripple.  You're old enough to know that cops can shoot at you mistakenly if they think you have a gun.

I didn't grow up in the Soviet Union so when I was out playing as a kid I wasn't thinking that cops would shoot me because they mistook my toy gun for a real one.  I also didn't think about getting a commercial license for a lemonade stand or about moving violations while riding a bike.