The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[OttoVonBismarck]

Certainly the larger police departments have the equivalent of that here, but the guys in the unit are still police and there are mixed levels of trust for them. The public still thinks they are part of the "thin blue line" and unlikely to honestly investigate the police, meanwhile they tend to be detested by other police since they're basically the guys who get them in trouble for fucking up.

A department like Ferguson PD with 50 sworn officers would have nothing like that.

I think one problem we have in America is elected prosecutors, I'd prefer that each State run its own prosecutor office where it's like a civil service, and head prosecutors for a given county are appointed by higher up civil servants, maybe the very top guy would report up to the State Attorney General or something (who would probably have to be elected since Americans have a lust for electing offices they shouldn't.) This is essentially how State Police departments are ran, and in general it's a good model. The top guy is usually governor appointed but everyone else is a career professional, and they usually cycle through working different areas (which I think helps insulate them from local politics.)

As it is, elections for things like judges and local prosecutors tend to be among the lowest turn out elections in all of American politics, sometimes getting like less than 10% voter turnout in the primaries. The general elections are often held along with a Congressional / Presidential election and get higher turn out, but in most places the primary is the real election for these offices. Anyway, due to the very low voter turn out, and the fact that police unions tend to get lock-step voting on issues like local prosecutors and judges, these elected officials have a very strong incentive to give special treatment to police, since they probably wouldn't be elected without them.

[Ed Anger]

Things in Cincy have been pretty calm, apart from a crowd of mostly hipsters making a lame attempt to emulate what other cities are doing.  That said, I'm staying out of OTR the next several days as a precaution.

I'm staying out of Dayton. And Trotwood.

Also, I'm making sure I have my CCW weapon with me and spare magazines.

[crazy canuck]

It was a great move on the prosecutor's part, when you don't want to indict a police officer.

Right.  If he had just announced he was not going to press charges all hell would have broken loose.

Maybe, maybe not. I personally think the option that would be most just (while not perfect) and most conciliatory would have been for McCulloch to step aside for a special prosecutor appointed by the Governor. A prosecutor not from the same county and someone with basically an unassailable, "I hate fucking pig cops and want to bathe in the blood of their children" reputation who also probably should be black. Likely if that person was a competent attorney they'd have to come to the conclusion Wilson would not be beatable at trial due to the witness evidence which appears contradictory (or supports Wilson's version of the events) and the physical evidence (which largely supports his version of events.)

I think if people riot after that then they were going to riot no matter what. With McCulloch's show grand jury designed from the get go not to indict a riot was guaranteed. It may have been guaranteed no matter what, admittedly.

In this jurisdiction we have a independant police investigation office which investigates all cases of death when police are present.  It was put in place to avoid the conflicts inherent in police (or those associated with the police) investigating the police in order to promote public confidence.

The trouble I have with "independent police investigation" units (and, for that matter, to special prosecutors being appointed) is that you get these things being handled by people who have no idea how to do a proper investigation (or a proper prosecution). 

Wow, what a leap of logic that was.

[crazy canuck]

Certainly the larger police departments have the equivalent of that here, but the guys in the unit are still police and there are mixed levels of trust for them. The public still thinks they are part of the "thin blue line" and unlikely to honestly investigate the police, meanwhile they tend to be detested by other police since they're basically the guys who get them in trouble for fucking up.

Not here. 

Here are two steps taken to avoid the problem

•To ensure there is no perception of bias, the chief civilian director cannot be a person who is a current or former member of a police force.
•The director has the discretion to hire ex-police officers as investigators, as long as they have not served as police officers in B.C. within the past five years

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/policeservices/iio/

[OttoVonBismarck]

That seems pretty reasonable, but would likely never happen in America. Too much of law enforcement is political here and the police unions are too powerful. Law enforcement should be a lot more like typical civil service, but isn't.

[CountDeMoney]

That seems pretty reasonable, but would likely never happen in America. Too much of law enforcement is political here and the police unions are too powerful. Law enforcement should be a lot more like typical civil service, but isn't.

You're starting to see some of that in the Northwest, though.  I had applied for an investigator's position for a civilianized IIU up in Washington state once, detached from the LEOs yet still part of the government. 
Then again, you look at Cleveland PD, and their police union is so strong they've made sure there are no dashcams in the squad cars and you don't even have your name on your uniform, just your badge number.  So it depends on the region, some are more progressive than others.

[CountDeMoney]

Here are two steps taken to avoid the problem

•To ensure there is no perception of bias, the chief civilian director cannot be a person who is a current or former member of a police force.
•The director has the discretion to hire ex-police officers as investigators, as long as they have not served as police officers in B.C. within the past five years

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/policeservices/iio/

Ide's right;  Canada is like America, only better.

[Ed Anger]

Just say no to Flannel and Canadian tuxedos.

[CountDeMoney]

Law enforcement should be a lot more like typical civil service, but isn't.

First thing they need to do is stop hiring so many fucking ex-soldiers.  It all may be rank structure, but it's always been apples and PTSD oranges.

[garbon]

People don't realize when you're shutting down the main artery into the city, it creates a domino effect throughout the region.  I heard traffic was jacked up all the way to Howard County.
Definitely not the way to win the hearts and minds of Whitey.  Not when he just wants to get the hell home from a job he hates at the end of the day. 

Hundreds of demonstrators turned out in Baltimore to voice frustration and solidarity with protesters in Ferguson, Mo., marching through downtown streets and shutting down the entrance to Interstate 83.

At Morgan State University, students blocked several intersections near campus, forming a giant square at Loch Raven Boulevard and Cold Spring Lane, shouting "No justice, no peace."

Protesters lined Mount Royal Avenue holding black umbrellas near the Maryland Institute College of Art, while someone used black spray paint to write "R.I.P. Michael Brown" on the side of a mobile Baltimore Police command center in South Baltimore.

Police said the demonstrations were mostly peaceful. Hourlong traffic backups caused the most commotion, with officers shutting downtown streets to allow marchers to make their way around the Inner Harbor and City Hall. Demonstrators said they just wanted people to stop and listen.

"That's the only way we're going to be heard," said Davon Perry, 26. "We have to be loud. We're just a scratch. We want to be an annoyance."

Police spokesman Detective Howard Ruganzu reported no arrests and no property damage Tuesday evening. He said one protester was hit by a truck, and officers called an ambulance to the scene. The injuries were not life-threatening.

What a Mono-like post.

[CountDeMoney]

What a Mono-like post.

The weekend would've been better, and they probably would've gotten a much larger turnout.  Everybody wins.

[Barrister]

Certainly the larger police departments have the equivalent of that here, but the guys in the unit are still police and there are mixed levels of trust for them. The public still thinks they are part of the "thin blue line" and unlikely to honestly investigate the police, meanwhile they tend to be detested by other police since they're basically the guys who get them in trouble for fucking up.

Not here. 

Here are two steps taken to avoid the problem

•To ensure there is no perception of bias, the chief civilian director cannot be a person who is a current or former member of a police force.
•The director has the discretion to hire ex-police officers as investigators, as long as they have not served as police officers in B.C. within the past five years

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/policeservices/iio/

I tried to look that up, but IIOBC's website kept timing out on me.

I'm puzzled by the five year requirement.  It seems to me you either hire ex-cops, or you don't.  Waiting five years just means you're going to get ex-cops who couldn't hack it in whatever their originally planned retirement job was.

Basically I'm pretty okay with what we do here - bigger agencies like  EPS and CPS have their own "internal investigations" unit.  Smaller agencies will just ask an outside police force to come in and investigate as-needed.  Prosecutions gets handled by a professional prosecutor, but from a different region - so we get Edmonton Crowns prosecuting Calgary police officers, for example.

[CountDeMoney]

Waiting five years just means you're going to get ex-cops who couldn't hack it in whatever their originally planned retirement job was.

It puts a dent and distance on the Buddy Network.

[11B4V]

Waiting five years just means you're going to get ex-cops who couldn't hack it in whatever their originally planned retirement job was.

It puts a dent and distance on the Buddy Network.

He brokeded my nose.

[PJL]

People don't realize when you're shutting down the main artery into the city, it creates a domino effect throughout the region.  I heard traffic was jacked up all the way to Howard County.
Definitely not the way to win the hearts and minds of Whitey.  Not when he just wants to get the hell home from a job he hates at the end of the day. 

That's exactly the sort of argument that Mono was saying a few weeks ago, and got lambasted for.