The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[grumbler]

If the PD is structured so that service on the riot units is voluntary - and my understanding that how it is set up in Portland - then they can withdraw from the units without losing their jobs. 

It's probably for the better as Portland shouldn't have riot police who believe its perfectly OK to beat defenseless people on the head with a baton.

It's kinda silly to allow police to refrain at will from law enforcement duties.  Given the reason that these cops are resigning (one of them was held accountable under the law for beating a defenseless person on the head with a baton) the voluntary system doesn't seem much of a guarantee that those actions won't happen.

The solution, it seems to me, is to require police to enforce the law within the law, whatever form of law enforcement is necessary, and keep them from beating innocent people by charging criminal cops with criminal charges, just like any other criminal.  Allowing cops to decline to enforce the law because they feel bad that they cannot commit criminal acts without consequences is madness.

[Sheilbh]

It sort of feels like it's getting to the point that I think I've read of in some Eastern European countries where they basically had to fire everyone and start from the beginning because corruption was so ingrained. Here obviously the issue isn't corruption.

[DGuller]

It sort of feels like it's getting to the point that I think I've read of in some Eastern European countries where they basically had to fire everyone and start from the beginning because corruption was so ingrained. Here obviously the issue isn't corruption.

In a way it is, it just involves power and privileges rather than money.  Corruption is merely misuse of power entrusted in you that you need to fulfill your duty for your own benefit.  The benefit doesn't have to be monetary.

[Sheilbh]

That's fair - and those cards that I think the NYPD were giving out for friends and family of cops is pure corruption. It's an absolute disgrace.

[Syt]

In Germany, meanwhile, hardly a week passes where there isn't a leak of police chats that contain racist or other right wing messages and imagery.

Last week I read about a case of a police woman in Brandenburg. The vast majority of her circle of friends are members of the neo-nazi scene. At her wedding they took a group photo with Hitler salute. Her husband wore a swastika armband. She was fired. A court ordered her reinstated, as there was no proof that all of this affected her discharging of her duties neutrally. The police district that fired her decided not to appeal and has her on indefinite paid leave.

The SEK Frankfurt (SEK = Sondereinsatzkommando = SWAT) has been disbanded following the discovery of right wing chat messages. The TAZ (admittedly a left wing paper) has researched the police protecting the German parliament and have uncovered ex-members of the Reichsbürger movement (people who reject the Federal Republic as illegitimate state), who like extreme-right groups and posts on Facebook, share such messages in official internal chat groups or, in one case, show the Hitler salute in the break room.

30 soldiers of the German contingent in Lithuania have been ordered back following racist, antisemitic and other such messages and memes, and (filmed) sexual abuse of one comrade. And then we're not even talking about disappeared weapons and ammo etc.

[Tonitrus]

That's fair - and those cards that I think the NYPD were giving out for friends and family of cops is pure corruption. It's an absolute disgrace.

If I recall, that was the union (often a very small point of separation, I know) that doing up the cards, not the NYPD itself.

[Solmyr]

In Germany, meanwhile, hardly a week passes where there isn't a leak of police chats that contain racist or other right wing messages and imagery.

Finland had a case like that recently, when a constable was dismissed after his comments were uncovered where he fantasized about murdering (left-wing) government politicians.

[The Brain]

If the PD is structured so that service on the riot units is voluntary - and my understanding that how it is set up in Portland - then they can withdraw from the units without losing their jobs. 

It's probably for the better as Portland shouldn't have riot police who believe its perfectly OK to beat defenseless people on the head with a baton.

It's kinda silly to allow police to refrain at will from law enforcement duties.  Given the reason that these cops are resigning (one of them was held accountable under the law for beating a defenseless person on the head with a baton) the voluntary system doesn't seem much of a guarantee that those actions won't happen.

The solution, it seems to me, is to require police to enforce the law within the law, whatever form of law enforcement is necessary, and keep them from beating innocent people by charging criminal cops with criminal charges, just like any other criminal.  Allowing cops to decline to enforce the law because they feel bad that they cannot commit criminal acts without consequences is madness.

It seems bizarre that an employer accepts voluntary assignments. Sure, you take the wishes of the employee into account at all times unless you're a moron, but having a situation where the employee can unilaterally say "I don't want to do this task anymore so I won't, starting today" without quitting the job entirely is madness.

[Eddie Teach]

Many urban police forces have trouble keeping enough staff.

[grumbler]

Many urban police forces have trouble keeping enough staff.

Many XXX have trouble keeping enough staff.  Starting Salary for PPB is $66,934 with no experience and only a high school diploma.  https://www.joinportlandpolice.com/wages-benefits 

[Eddie Teach]

Possibly not enough to entice people for riot duty, idk.

[grumbler]

Possibly not enough to entice people for riot duty, idk.

Riot duty gets them a 10% bonus, and another 50% if it is overtime.  And it really isn't about enticing police to enforce the law.  It's about requiring them to enforce the law or find another career (one that won't pay nearly as much, in most cases). 

[Valmy]

Well whatever way we find to motivate people to be police officers or serve riot duty, one of those methods should probably not be the guarantee you will not be held accountable for violations of the law.

[Eddie Teach]

But they don't have to find another career, there are police departments in less hazardous areas.

Anyway, just proffering a theory why the department lets them off the hook.

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xlV2Hu_fGw

Footage of the Portland riot unit member's assault for those who have not seen it.