The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Razgovory]

It also kinda sounds like he should have been in a mental facility instead of a prison cell, maybe?

There really aren't many of those.  Mental hospitals that can house potentially dangerous patients are not common.  I think there may be two in the state of Missouri.

[grumbler]

It also kinda sounds like he should have been in a mental facility instead of a prison cell, maybe?

Probably, but for obvious reasons it isn't easy to involuntarily commit someone to a mental health facility.  And even if it were, this guy had only been arrested two days earlier, so the system wouldn't have had time to process him.

None of that has anything to do with the negligence and brutality of the officers, though.  His death was a consequence of their actions that they should have realized; his actions were not those that he could foresee would lead to death.

[jimmy olsen]

Definitely doesn't look safe for the driver or the cop to pull over on a highway with that small a shoulder.
https://twitter.com/shawnavercher/status/1402779730802323459

This is nuts. Nicole Harper was pulled over by an Arkansas state trooper. She pulled to the side, turned on her hazards, and looked for an exit.

He waited 20 seconds and then used a PIT maneuver to flip her car. She was pregnant.

[grumbler]

Those are the kinds of thugs all too often employed by police departments, and the ugly incidents won't stop until that is no longer true.  There's no amount of training that will cure the serious problems with being human that Corporal Dunn has.

Highway patrolmen have murdered women in these kinds of stops.  It's crazy to try to kill them for wanting to stop in a safe place.

[Tonitrus]

Those are the kinds of thugs all too often employed by police departments, and the ugly incidents won't stop until that is no longer true.  There's no amount of training that will cure the serious problems with being human that Corporal Dunn has.

Highway patrolmen have murdered women in these kinds of stops.  It's crazy to try to kill them for wanting to stop in a safe place.

And in this case, it goes all the way to the top:

In a statement to Fox 16 after the Dunn incident, Arkansas State Police Colonel Bill Bryant said: "Over the past five years, Arkansas State Troopers have documented a 52 percent increase in incidents of drivers making a conscious choice to ignore traffic stops initiated by the troopers.

"Instead of stopping, the drivers try to flee. In more populated areas of the state, the incidents of fleeing from troopers have risen by more than 80 percent. The fleeing drivers pull away at a high rate of speed, wildly driving, dangerously passing other vehicles, showing no regard for the safety of other motorists, creating an imminent threat to the public.

"Should a driver make the decision to ignore the law and flee from police, state troopers are trained to consider their options."

Bryant added: "PIT has proven to be an effective tool to stop drivers who are placing others in harm's way. It has saved lives among those who choose to obey the law against those who choose to run from police. In every case a state trooper has used a PIT maneuver, the fleeing driver could have chosen to end the pursuit by doing what all law-abiding citizens do every day when a police officer turns on the blue lights—they pull over and stop."

[Tonitrus]

Also...it is really just unnecessary.

You caught them speeding?  Ok, it's not a high-speed chase for a felony suspect...you easily got their license plate number...just jot it down and arrange for them to get a nice fine/ticket in the mail.  Even if they did manage to actually evade/escape, it is easy enough to pick them up later at their home.

 

[Syt]

52% increase, 80% increase ... how much in absolute numbers? I mean, has it gone from 5 to 9 or from 500 to 900?

[Barrister]

Also...it is really just unnecessary.

You caught them speeding?  Ok, it's not a high-speed chase for a felony suspect...you easily got their license plate number...just jot it down and arrange for them to get a nice fine/ticket in the mail.  Even if they did manage to actually evade/escape, it is easy enough to pick them up later at their home.

Really hard to prove who is driving though.  And even in Canada failing to stop for police is usually a jailable offence.

Plus when someone goes into a high-speed chase even when the police break off the chase the suspect vehicle usually continues it's dangerous driving pattern for a good long while afterwards (I've probably seen dozens of videos from the police helicopter.

So grounds can sometimes certainly exist to use such tactics.  But in this case where the driver clearly signals an intention to pull over, and who is at anything but high speed?

[Tonitrus]

I've noticed/seems to me, that a lot of the problems that the police have in this and other situations (i.e. that case not long ago with the Army dude who was pepper-sprayed and pulled out of his vehicle) stems from an overall lack of patience.  Instead of trying to calmly talk someone down, deal with a low-confrontation/low-risk situation in a patient and deliberate manner, it is all too often a I-need-to-finish-this-now! approach.

Dude won't get out of his car, but isn't armed, not fighting?  Take the time and keep talking...there is no need to escalate just because you want to end the "standoff" quicker.

Lady isn't stopping for a speeding ticket fast enough?  Ok...lame, but it is easy to follow and wait.  Using the PIT maneuver as in this case is just an unnecessary, and dangerous escalation.

If the suspect escalates the situation (starts to actually fight, speed off/drive recklessly), then sure, respond appropriately.  But the police should never be the ones to escalate a situation...even with non-lethal force...just for the sake of obtaining compliance.

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtZKRTL8YrU

All 50 members of Portland's riot unit resigned from that unit.

[grumbler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtZKRTL8YrU

All 50 members of Portland's riot unit resigned from that unit.

Man, wouldn't you like to be able to "resign" from any part of your job you don't like, while still collecting a full paycheck?

If these guys resigned from their assigned duties, then they resigned, period.  Portland PD shouldn't tolerate this "I'm resigning just from the work part, not the pay part."  All they get from retaining officers who think that they can pick and choose which duties they will allow themselves to be assigned is to encourage other cops from carrying out any of their own onerous duties.  This entitled attitude is what has ruined American policing.

[The Minsky Moment]

If the PD is structured so that service on the riot units is voluntary - and my understanding that how it is set up in Portland - then they can withdraw from the units without losing their jobs. 

It's probably for the better as Portland shouldn't have riot police who believe its perfectly OK to beat defenseless people on the head with a baton.

[Razgovory]

So are these officers going to support Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys openly now?

[The Brain]

If the PD is structured so that service on the riot units is voluntary - and my understanding that how it is set up in Portland - then they can withdraw from the units without losing their jobs. 

It's probably for the better as Portland shouldn't have riot police who believe its perfectly OK to beat defenseless people on the head with a baton.

How do you even find 50 non-hippies in Portland?

[PDH]

If the PD is structured so that service on the riot units is voluntary - and my understanding that how it is set up in Portland - then they can withdraw from the units without losing their jobs. 

It's probably for the better as Portland shouldn't have riot police who believe its perfectly OK to beat defenseless people on the head with a baton.

How do you even find 50 non-hippies in Portland?

You get the Nazis who live around Portland.