The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[alfred russel]

Years ago, a buddy of mine was driving through NE Alabama to a climbing spot, and he got pulled over for speeding. Not a big deal--only it was odd because this buddy is the slowest driver I know and we were both 99% sure the cop saying he was going 60 in a 35 or whatever he said was full of shit. But whatever, there was a license and registration check and he just got a warning.

Yesterday, in about the same place, a cop drove up behind me. The speed limit was 35 and I had cruise control set to 37-38. Other people in the car were giving me grief about how slow I was going, and I said I couldn't speed up because a cop was behind me. He kept following me forever--and people in the car started joking with me that the police in Alabama were on to me for the warrants I must have outstanding. Then I got pulled over! He said I was going 53 which is 100% bullshit. I saw him drive up behind me when I was stopped at a light, and never even got up to 40.

I just got a warning, so it is in no way a big deal. But it is kind of jarring to see without ambiguity that the cops are just be pulling people over with out of state tags without any cause to basically "check their papers".

[Berkut]

I hate the entire "the cops announced themselves" part anyway.

We live in a country that fetishizes people right to shoot other as long as they feel remotely threatened, and extra fetishizes the desireability of shooting anyone on your property who you think does not belong there.

Even if the cops announce themselves, and so so loudly, it seems beyond reasonable expectation that someone is going to wake up in the middle of the night from a dead sleep, here a bunch of yelling, and be calm and rational enough to realize it is the police before they open fire.

Not to mention that an "announcement" is worth nothing. Anyone can yell anything, just because the person breaking into my house in the middle of the night yells "POLICE!" doesn't mean they ARE police.

[The Minsky Moment]

They went to a judge and got a no knock warrant so they could knock and announce themselves, that makes total sense.  How could anyone question that story? 

[The Minsky Moment]

I know pretty much jack about firearms but years ago I went to a range and did one of this intro courses, one thing that made an impression was the discussion about handing firearms when in a structure because bullets have a tendency to go through things when fired from a gun. Yet trained officers fired 32 bullets in a crowded apartment complex. 

For what?  Because a nobody drug dealer was seen taking a USPS package out the house.  That was enough reason for police to bash down someone's door in the middle of the night with a battering ram.

It's like everything screwed up with our criminal justice system distilled into one horrifying set of events.

[The Minsky Moment]

"Affiant is requesting a No-Knock entry to the premises due to the nature of how these drug traffickers operate. These drug traffickers have a history of attempting to destroy evidence, have cameras on the location that compromise Detectives once an approach to the dwelling is made, and a have history of fleeing from law enforcement."

Although the warrant is ostensibly directed to two drug specific named drug dealers, "these drug traffickers" does not refer to them.  Did Glover have cameras installed at that apartment complex to track police?  If so I've seen no report to that

The usage is akin to "these people".  It is just a generic way of describing how all drug dealers supposedly operate, which in the context of a decades long drug "war" is a generic way to get judicial imprimatur for a legalized home invasion in force. "Those people" are sneaky sorts so the Constitution can be suspended in the neighborhoods where they operate. The constitutional process of ensuring probable cause and securing a proper warrant to protect the rights of the people become a routinized process of presenting bureaucratic magic words in return for a judicial blank check.

[The Minsky Moment]

TL DR if you have 3 police armed to the teeth with a battering ram smashing down a private residence in the middle of the night because MAYBE there is some mail there for a nobody slinging dime bags, the situation is already FUBAR.  It can only go downhill from there. And this time it went way down.

[viper37]

I just got a warning, so it is in no way a big deal. But it is kind of jarring to see without ambiguity that the cops are just be pulling people over with out of state tags without any cause to basically "check their papers".

there goes white priviledge.

and people say we're racist when we remark cops do it all the time for whites too.

[viper37]

They went to a judge and got a no knock warrant so they could knock and announce themselves, that makes total sense.  How could anyone question that story?

I read somewhere that their orders were changed on the day of the operation, despite the mandate.

Don't know if that makes sense.  Don't know what to think either that one witness says he heard them once and none of the others seem to have heard them.

[DGuller]

Don't know if that makes sense.  Don't know what to think either that one witness says he heard them once and none of the others seem to have heard them.

That one witness didn't hear it right away, he heard it weeks later.

[11B4V]

I know pretty much jack about firearms but years ago I went to a range and did one of this intro courses, one thing that made an impression was the discussion about handing firearms when in a structure because bullets have a tendency to go through things when fired from a gun. Yet trained officers fired 32 bullets in a crowded apartment complex. 

For what?  Because a nobody drug dealer was seen taking a USPS package out the house.  That was enough reason for police to bash down someone's door in the middle of the night with a battering ram.

It's like everything screwed up with our criminal justice system distilled into one horrifying set of events.

Tunnel vision and adrenalin.

Modern Policing mentality of the hammer and the nail.

[viper37]

Don't know if that makes sense.  Don't know what to think either that one witness says he heard them once and none of the others seem to have heard them.

That one witness didn't hear it right away, he heard it weeks later.

doesn't seem so.  At the very least, we have strong evidence the cops whispered police
at least twice since no one heard them knock&announce themselves 3 times.

[grumbler]

Don't know if that makes sense.  Don't know what to think either that one witness says he heard them once and none of the others seem to have heard them.

That one witness didn't hear it right away, he heard it weeks later.

doesn't seem so.  At the very least, we have strong evidence the cops whispered police
at least twice since no one heard them knock&announce themselves 3 times.

You are correct.  Sarpee changed his story two months later, not 'weeks" later.  In the immediate aftermath of the event, Sarpee testified that he never heard the police announce themselves (agreeing with eleven other witnesses).  Two months later, he testified in front of the police integrity commission that he had heard them announce themselves.  It is unclear what was presented to the grand jury, but the DA concluded that, since the officers said that they announced themselves, they must have done so.

I agree with the argument that no fair jury would be likely to return convictions on murder charges, but think that there were a lot more grounds for something like negligent homicide than the DA was willing to admit.

[Razgovory]

Honestly, we need some kind of law that states if a police officer violates procedure and it ends in someone's death then the officer in question is automatically charged of negligent homicide.

[Sheilbh]

I agree with the argument that no fair jury would be likely to return convictions on murder charges, but think that there were a lot more grounds for something like negligent homicide than the DA was willing to admit.

I understand that some members of the grand jury are calling for a release of what they heard etc because they're unhappy with the DA's public statements since then.

[merithyn]

I just got a warning, so it is in no way a big deal. But it is kind of jarring to see without ambiguity that the cops are just be pulling people over with out of state tags without any cause to basically "check their papers".

there goes white priviledge.

and people say we're racist when we remark cops do it all the time for whites too.

The difference here is that AR got off with a warning. The same can't be said for any number of "coloreds" who end up being pulled over.

I mean, I'm fairly certain you weren't taught by your mother before you could drive how to protect yourself if the police pull you over. I know I didn't teach my sons that. Yet every black boy and man that I know has been taught specifically how to handle themselves if they're pulled over by police. There's recently been an article out by a black man who talked about how he had to teach his young son to videotape so that if he ever got pulled over, his son was able to capture the encounter.

There's your white privilege, Viper.