The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Admiral Yi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the protesters' main demand is police reform, not golden girls episodes.

I will correct you.  I have heard the slogans "black lives matter," "stop shooting," "stop killing black people," "defund the police," etc., but I haven't heard anyone chanting "police reform!"

I will agree that taking episodes of The Golden Girls off the air has not been a main demand.  In fact I agree that no protester has mentioned Golden Girls. 

Does that mean that anything not specifically mentioned by protesters is acceptable to do?  I haven't heard mention of NASCAR either, as I already mentioned.

[Admiral Yi]

No. But I query the extent they would have happened without Bristol. I think the statues debate after Charlottesville was really annoying because it distracted from the bigger issue. I think in the UK those protests have largely been subsumed into a dispute about culture, which is a shame because I think BLM has less traction because fewer people die because of the police here. But I think there was the potential for a more focused campaigns on - the difference in fatality for BAME communities in the covid crisis, Grenfell etc. There are big issues to fix.

I've been impressed in the US that the protesters are actually being fairly disciplined and keeping the pressure up on

This part seems more like a critique of the protesters than a response to the issue I had been discussing, which was attempts to meet vague demands.

Yeah. So I think the long standing grievance is a fair point, but I also think there's a difference between the culture of our public space and sort of cultural artifacts. You know a text or a film or a TV series is created in a particular moment from a particular society and its then read by people then and people now, and the way we read it may change. But ultimately it's always a product of the moment it was created even if we receive it in a different way. <snip>

And this part part sounds more like a discussion of the validity of removing currently offensive culture product from the public's eye than the issue I had been discussing, which was attempts to meet vague demands.

[Razgovory]

I would say that economic inequality and police shootings are connected.  Compared to middle class and wealthy citizens, poor people tend to have much less pleasant encounters with the police.

[Sheilbh]

This part seems more like a critique of the protesters than a response to the issue I had been discussing, which was attempts to meet vague demands.

[...]

And this part part sounds more like a discussion of the validity of removing currently offensive culture product from the public's eye than the issue I had been discussing, which was attempts to meet vague demands.

Sure. I don't quite get your point though. It's possible to have multiple thoughts about the same thing at once - I'd definitely criticise UK protesters (frankly too many of the usual suspects have, I think, hijacked the protests), but wouldn't have the same criticism of the US protests.

I also think my bigger criticism/disagreement is that I don't think corporations are trying to meet any demands. I think they're trying to get credit and doing it in a really tone deaf way - as is their way when the brands interact with reality. I don't think the corporations have really been making a good faith effort, as I say I think they're virtue signalling.

And I think there's a difference between the public's eye and a public space which gets at what I was meaning. We watch one, we participate and live in the other.

[Admiral Yi]

Sure. I don't quite get your point though. It's possible to have multiple thoughts about the same thing at once - I'd definitely criticise UK protesters (frankly too many of the usual suspects have, I think, hijacked the protests), but wouldn't have the same criticism of the US protests.

I also think my bigger criticism/disagreement is that I don't think corporations are trying to meet any demands. I think they're trying to get credit and doing it in a really tone deaf way - as is their way when the brands interact with reality. I don't think the corporations have really been making a good faith effort, as I say I think they're virtue signalling.

And I think there's a difference between the public's eye and a public space which gets at what I was meaning. We watch one, we participate and live in the other.

What's the difference between meeting demands and trying to get credit/virtue signalling?  Which was the Minneapolis city council doing when they said they would "defund" the police department?  Which was Nancy Pelosi doing when she introduced a bill banning sales of military equipment to police departments? 

It's a meaningless distinction.  All it tells us is that you like these people and you dislike those people.

[Sheilbh]

You always accuse me of liking x people and disliking y people

So I don't like the phrasing of demands - I don't think it quite works with protests or it misunderstands them. Which we've talked about before, I don't really think protests work that way. And I've no issue with people trying to take credit - whether they are successful is another matter. And you've got a point with Pelosi especially because she's got a Republican Senate and President, so all she can do is signal. But she's a politician so that's a really important thing.

The difference I'd draw out goes back to my original point: what Minneapolis and Pelosi have been trying to do is directly linked to the protests.

What the network corporation is doing is something no-one asked for and has been criticised when it's happened before (30 Rock was earlier this week) by the very activists they are ostensibly supporting - which is why I think it's more similar to my examples of brands changing all their social media logos to rainbows or issuing statements in support of BLM or doing the #BlackoutTuesday thing. It just feels very Ralph Wiggum "I'm helping."

[The Minsky Moment]

The Golden Girls issue has nothing to do with virtue signalling.  It has to do with how large bureaucratic organizations manage cultural change.  There is a reason Disney doesn't screen and stream Song of the South; that sucker is staying firmly in the Vault.   You want your Zippiddee Doo Dahs you go on the sanitized water ride.  I haven't seen the episode in question but safe to say that present day corporate guidelines would probably have stopped it before it ever aired.  And if it wouldn't be made now why would you stream it now?  You can accuse the company of "virtue signalling" or you can say they are just being respectful of all components of their audience and from where I stand it looks the same.

[Admiral Yi]

We're going in circles Shelf.

[Syt]

Appalling trigger discipline.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, I think that might be a violation of Missouri law.

[Syt]

Yeah, I think that might be a violation of Missouri law.

I'm sure the police showed up and put them in there place.

[11B4V]

Yeah, I think that might be a violation of Missouri law.

I'm sure the police showed up and put them in there place.

They were defunded.

[Tamas]

I can't help but find links between these ridiculous public self-flagellations of show cancellation and white voice actors quitting voicing mixed race characters, and our Christian cultural roots. It's how we still have indulgence papers with the bloody buy this to compensate for your carbon footprint nonsense.

[Duque de Bragança]

I can't help but find links between these ridiculous public self-flagellations of show cancellation and white voice actors quitting voicing mixed race characters, and our Christian cultural roots. It's how we still have indulgence papers with the bloody buy this to compensate for your carbon footprint nonsense.

Good thing Luther put an end to indulgences. 

[Duque de Bragança]

One of the things I don't like about streaming services is the ability to do this kind of post-editing. They will just drop episodes or scenes and it is like they have been removed from history. Disney has been doing that with the old Simpsons episodes I hear and it is kind of disconcerting I think.

Don't throw out your DVDs quite yet.

A new raison d'être for physical media! It's not like choice for "old" movies and shows was great on legal streaming anyways.
Keep your Star Wars Laserdics, just in case you don't have access to the net. 

PS: blu-ray is nice too.

Huh. As usual I have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not.

I honestly prefer physical media, if given the choice.