The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[HisMajestyBOB]

They're the only ones that have statues of them and are still an issue in our society.

When Nazis and fascists start rallying around statues of the Sultan of Zanzibar, I'll consider Muslim slavers a higher priority.

Well, start by the infamous Leopold II. He did fight muslim slavers. 
Among other things...

Does that action exonerate mass murder?

[Duque de Bragança]

It doesn't have to be a high priority, just acknowledged when relevant. I don't think that is too much to ask.

Such as when the woke crowd is bringing up Tintin in the Congo, reminding them of the Red Sea Sharks album?

[Duque de Bragança]

They're the only ones that have statues of them and are still an issue in our society.

When Nazis and fascists start rallying around statues of the Sultan of Zanzibar, I'll consider Muslim slavers a higher priority.

Well, start by the infamous Leopold II. He did fight muslim slavers. 
Among other things...

Does that action exonerate mass murder?

Nope, but thanks for the strawman.

[HisMajestyBOB]

They're the only ones that have statues of them and are still an issue in our society.

When Nazis and fascists start rallying around statues of the Sultan of Zanzibar, I'll consider Muslim slavers a higher priority.

Well, start by the infamous Leopold II. He did fight muslim slavers. 
Among other things...

Does that action exonerate mass murder?

Nope, but thanks for the strawman.

Then I fail to see your point. There are no statues to Muslim slavers, nor do Western countries celebrate them. Your post implies that we should celebrate Leopold II's victories over Muslim slavers, presumably instead of condemning his mass murder and own actions as a slaver. If you have an actual point worth discussing, try posting it.

[Admiral Yi]

It's very rarely relevant.

It seems relevant to the issues of collective guilt and/or reparations.

[Oexmelin]

It's very rarely relevant.

It seems relevant to the issues of collective guilt and/or reparations.

Who is talking about collective guilt?

And reparations are, for better or for worse, tied to existing states and polities. As far as I know, that movement is aimed at the existing polities of the US, or the UK (and maybe France), who both sponsored and used enslaved labor, while wishing to uphold democratic values and aspirations.

[Valmy]

It doesn't have to be a high priority, just acknowledged when relevant. I don't think that is too much to ask.

It's very rarely relevant.

True, but in our globalized culture it does come up from time to time.

[Duque de Bragança]

They're the only ones that have statues of them and are still an issue in our society.

When Nazis and fascists start rallying around statues of the Sultan of Zanzibar, I'll consider Muslim slavers a higher priority.

Well, start by the infamous Leopold II. He did fight muslim slavers. 
Among other things...

Does that action exonerate mass murder?

Nope, but thanks for the strawman.

Then I fail to see your point. There are no statues to Muslim slavers, nor do Western countries celebrate them. Your post implies that we should celebrate Leopold II's victories over Muslim slavers, presumably instead of condemning his mass murder and own actions as a slaver. If you have an actual point worth discussing, try posting it.

There are statues of Muslim slavers in muslim countries, I suggest you do a bit of (virtual) research in say, Somalia:

However, Somalia right now has other concerns and nobody cares about that statue anymore.

As for Western countries, that's hardly surprising, some of them were victim of muslim slavers until the 19th century, no shit Sherlock! Guess what ended it in the Mediterranean.
You missed that part obviously along with the Cervantes reference. Try looking for the etymology of "!Moros en la Costa!" in Castilian while you are at it.

So yes, not point discussing with somebody like you so ignorant of slavery and the slave trade, oriental-style.

PS: Leopold II has often been accused of genocide through negligence and outright despise for human life, hence the (tongue in cheek) comparison with Nazis and Fascists. Not surprised part of the woke crowd did not get it.

[Admiral Yi]

Who is talking about collective guilt?

I, for one.

And reparations are, for better or for worse, tied to existing states and polities. As far as I know, that movement is aimed at the existing polities of the US, or the UK (and maybe France), who both sponsored and used enslaved labor, while wishing to uphold democratic values and aspirations.

I'm aware who it's aimed at: the deepest pockets and the people most susceptible to feelings of guilt.  As you said, for better or worse.

[Eddie Teach]

It's very rarely relevant.

It seems relevant to the issues of collective guilt and/or reparations.

Not if both those things are non-starters.

[Admiral Yi]

Not if both those things are non-starters.

Collective guilt is hardly a non-starter.

[Zoupa]

Who is talking about collective guilt?

I, for one.

And reparations are, for better or for worse, tied to existing states and polities. As far as I know, that movement is aimed at the existing polities of the US, or the UK (and maybe France), who both sponsored and used enslaved labor, while wishing to uphold democratic values and aspirations.

I'm aware who it's aimed at: the deepest pockets and the people most susceptible to feelings of guilt.  As you said, for better or worse.

I mean, promises were made too. It's not just Fox News talk of white guilt here.

[Admiral Yi]

I mean, promises were made too. It's not just Fox News talk of white guilt here.

Expansion of the collective responsibility does not mean a denial of the original narrow collective responsibility.

[Tamas]

Muslims slavers don't really matter because they were no leaders or prominent figures of the countries were these protests are. Notice how there are no protests in Muslim countries to tear down slaver statues. That's because the few who do want to tear them down are afraid to demand that publicly.

They also do not matter because everyone holds the Muslim countries to different standards, chief among them are the leftist activists, most of whom think that patronising does not equal looking down on them (but in fact it does). I find the right's disinterest in them a bit more honest than that, at least they consider themselves superior fairly openly.

The only way they do matter is to try and keep in bay the hopefully still minority activists/"historians" who consider and advertise the terrible slaver societies of the East like the Ottomans and the Mongols as some kind of a multicultural melting pot paradise where everyone was equal. Reminding the public that those in fact was vile tyrannys of a small warrior elite is useful.

[Oexmelin]

I mean, promises were made too. It's not just Fox News talk of white guilt here.

Expansion of the collective responsibility does not mean a denial of the original narrow collective responsibility.

I don't understand your point about guilt.