The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[11B4V]

So in short, the mob took it upon themselves to destroy property of the state.

Yeah. Alternately the public took it upon themselves to destroy a statue in the public's space. Our streets are ours, not the "state's".

Mob mentality

Is there no situation in which you'd find "mob mentality" appropriate? Honest question.

Nope. Does the ends justify the means?

Most and likely the crowd got out of control because of a few "Bad Apples".

[Sheilbh]

After posting a picture of his dad on civil rights marches, here's Mitt Romney joining the 1,000 Christians for BLM today:


This is a sign of the success of these protests. If you'd said on 1 January that by the end of the year Mitt Romney would have joined a BLM protest I think you would have been laughed out the room.

[Eddie Teach]

I'm glad they're all wearing masks.

[The Brain]

Is that a guy in a Mitt Romney mask?

[grumbler]

I'm wondering what property, whether it belonged to The State or to the people, was destroyed in Bristol.  I saw only pictures of an intact statue being carefully lowered into the river.  That's a far cry from a mob attacking a statue with sledgehammers.  Before, you have a list of the property of the State that was actually destroyed?

[11B4V]

I'm wondering what property, whether it belonged to The State or to the people, was destroyed in Bristol.  I saw only pictures of an intact statue being carefully lowered into the river.  That's a far cry from a mob attacking a statue with sledgehammers.  Before, you have a list of the property of the State that was actually destroyed?

Fuck, just read. You been under a rock.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/7/21283003/protesters-tore-down-confederate-statue-virginia-monuments-alabama-new-orleans

More like it just google.

Do I think these monuments and all forms of the confederate flag be removed and thrown on the ash heap of history, you bet. Doing it under mob rules, nope.

I don't buy redneck folks I know who say, "Oh it's history this or that."  Fuck that, read a book, you can read can't you.

Hell the mayor of one city ordered them to be taken down. That's a far better and more satisfying win IMO.

[The Larch]

Minneapolis city council pledges to defund city's police department

A veto-proof majority of the Minneapolis city council has announced its intent to dismantle the city's police department and invest in community-led public safety, a move that would mark the first concrete victory in the mounting nationwide movement to defund law enforcement agencies in the aftermath of the police killing of George Floyd.

Nine of the council's 12 members announced their pledge to create a new system of public safety before hundreds of demonstrators at a rally at Powderhorn Park in south Minneapolis on Sunday afternoon.

"This council is going to dismantle this police department," councilman Jeremiah Ellison said.

Added city council president Lisa Bender: "We're here because we hear you. We are here today because George Floyd was killed by the Minneapolis police. We are here because here in Minneapolis and in cities across the United States it is clear that our existing system of policing and public safety is not keeping our communities safe.

"Our efforts at incremental reform have failed. Period."

On Friday, the council approved an agreement to ban the use of police chokeholds and neck restraints in response to the killing of Floyd with the state's department of human rights, which also requires officers to intervene anytime they seen an unauthorized use of force.

When pressed by CNN for details on what a city with a defunded police department might look like, Bender told the network that funding would be shifted to other needs.

"The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," Bender said.

[11B4V]

Good luck with that.

[grumbler]

I'm wondering what property, whether it belonged to The State or to the people, was destroyed in Bristol.  I saw only pictures of an intact statue being carefully lowered into the river.  That's a far cry from a mob attacking a statue with sledgehammers.  Before, you have a list of the property of the State that was actually destroyed?

Fuck, just read. You been under a rock.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/7/21283003/protesters-tore-down-confederate-statue-virginia-monuments-alabama-new-orleans

More like it just google.

Do I think these monuments and all forms of the confederate flag be removed and thrown on the ash heap of history, you bet. Doing it under mob rules, nope.

I don't buy redneck folks I know who say, "Oh it's history this or that."  Fuck that, read a book, you can read can't you.

Hell the mayor of one city ordered them to be taken down. That's a far better and more satisfying win IMO.

Fuck dude, just read!  I asked what destruction occurred in Bristol (the subject of the discussion), and you refer to some people taking Lee off his pedestal in Montgomery Alabama!  Reading is fundamental.  If I'm using any words you don't understand, just ask.

[11B4V]

I'm wondering what property, whether it belonged to The State or to the people, was destroyed in Bristol.  I saw only pictures of an intact statue being carefully lowered into the river.  That's a far cry from a mob attacking a statue with sledgehammers.  Before, you have a list of the property of the State that was actually destroyed?

Fuck, just read. You been under a rock.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/7/21283003/protesters-tore-down-confederate-statue-virginia-monuments-alabama-new-orleans

More like it just google.

Do I think these monuments and all forms of the confederate flag be removed and thrown on the ash heap of history, you bet. Doing it under mob rules, nope.

I don't buy redneck folks I know who say, "Oh it's history this or that."  Fuck that, read a book, you can read can't you.

Hell the mayor of one city ordered them to be taken down. That's a far better and more satisfying win IMO.

Fuck dude, just read!  I asked what destruction occurred in Bristol (the subject of the discussion), and you refer to some people taking Lee off his pedestal in Montgomery Alabama!  Reading is fundamental.  If I'm using any words you don't understand, just ask.

You just asked for a list of property of the state. Not what state.
Brit mobs are rather polite....so mob rules still.   

[Eddie Teach]

I'm curious how these replacement programs work and whether they will be effective at preventing crime.

[Sheilbh]

Also the reason I emphasised public space rather than property of the state is I genuinely don't know the status of statues. They definitely need permission from the state, but certainly in the UK a lot of them are privately funded - so this one was funded by the Merchant Venturers and other local groups of the great and good. I don't know how ownership of them works.

It's also why, I imagine, when they looked at how to change the plaque the main stakeholders involved were Merchant Venturers who fundraised for them - while this is a public space so there are different interests.

There's definitely some state statuary, but a lot of it is by subscription - especially in the 19th century. I imagine it's similar in the US, how many were put up by cities and how many by Daughters of the Confederacy. So there is a debate over how the state allows public space to be used rather than the state's property itself.

[grumbler]

You just asked for a list of property of the state. Not what state.
Brit mobs are rather polite....so mob rules still.   

I asked for a list of property of the state destroyed in Bristol.

Brit mobs are more polite than even US civilian mobs.  US cop mobs are kinda the exact opposite of Brit mobs.  And US Mob mobs are worse even than US cop mobs.

[11B4V]

Also the reason I emphasised public space rather than property of the state is I genuinely don't know the status of statues. They definitely need permission from the state, but certainly in the UK a lot of them are privately funded - so this one was funded by the Merchant Venturers and other local groups of the great and good. I don't know how ownership of them works.

It's also why, I imagine, when they looked at how to change the plaque the main stakeholders involved were Merchant Venturers who fundraised for them - while this is a public space so there are different interests.

There's definitely some state statuary, but a lot of it is by subscription - especially in the 19th century. I imagine it's similar in the US, how many were put up by cities and how many by Daughters of the Confederacy. So there is a debate over how the state allows public space to be used rather than the state's property itself.

Point taken. So, if it's public space than anyone can do whatever.

[grumbler]

I'm curious how these replacement programs work and whether they will be effective at preventing crime.

Yeah, the necessary reduction of cop violent crime has to be balanced with need to avoid a too-large increase in civilian violent crime.  Having you face bashed in by a civilian thug rather than a police thug doesn't reduce the number of stitches required.

On the other hand, not deliberately making an enemy of the people you are policing should make solving some crimes easier.