The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[fromtia]

See? I don't like them cheering on the needless destruction of shops and I am branded as against the cause of the protests.

You guys are heading for a civll war with this attitude.

*gasps* teh civil war against teh libs begins! He mocked me saying virtue signalling! To arms!!!

[DGuller]

This is what I meant about protest supporters being careful about picking their heroes, if they want to keep their credibility.  It sure looks to me like some here are making heroes out of those who trash stores to take some free shit with them, and somehow making it out that not only is taking 10 free pairs of pants further the cause of protests, but that it's a necessary part of a successful protests.  If you're against that, you're for people being killed by police with impunity.

[DGuller]

For what it's worth, I'm not seeing any virtues being signaled here.  Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Sophie Scholl]

Patton Oswalt had a great post about virtue signalling the other day. "Y'know why you yell "virtue signaling" when you see anyone be an ally to the oppressed or abused or "othered"? 'Cuz you can't imagine an action not linked to a selfish motive. You can't accept someone wanting a better world without it directly benefiting them. It's beyond you."

[Duque de Bragança]

Striking how many protests this has sparked in Europe - Berlin, London, Paris (extraordinary crowds of about 20,000 under the hashtag #justicepouradama, after Adama Traore a 24 year old black man

Police says 15,000 which still is surprisingly high.  People killed two birds with a stone I guess, after a long lockdown ; the demonstration was not authorized since meeting of more than 10 people are still forbidden.
Plus a new autopsy contradicting the previous ones, without really settling the case yet.
Already trouble around Porte de Clichy, near the Paris ring road, after a peaceful start, unsurprisingly.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/mort-d-adama-traore-le-prefet-de-police-interdit-un-rassemblement-a-paris-20200602

[DGuller]

Patton Oswalt had a great post about virtue signalling the other day. "Y'know why you yell "virtue signaling" when you see anyone be an ally to the oppressed or abused or "othered"? 'Cuz you can't imagine an action not linked to a selfish motive. You can't accept someone wanting a better world without it directly benefiting them. It's beyond you."

Self-righteousness is always an effective argument against accusations of virtue signalling.

[fromtia]

This is what I meant about protest supporters being careful about picking their heroes, if they want to keep their credibility.  It sure looks to me like some here are making heroes out of those who trash stores to take some free shit with them, and somehow making it out that not only is taking 10 free pairs of pants further the cause of protests, but that it's a necessary part of a successful protests.  If you're against that, you're for people being killed by police with impunity.

As I have said multiple times, I am firmly against looting, lawlessness, destruction of property, violence in general. I condemn the destruction of family owned businesses and Big Box stores.

Easy. Police murders and malfeasance are also very easy to figure out a position on.

[Valmy]

Patton Oswalt had a great post about virtue signalling the other day. "Y'know why you yell "virtue signaling" when you see anyone be an ally to the oppressed or abused or "othered"? 'Cuz you can't imagine an action not linked to a selfish motive. You can't accept someone wanting a better world without it directly benefiting them. It's beyond you."

Generally what I see as "virtue signaling" is when some big corporation releases a propaganda video saying how much they support whatever value they are trying to claim as part of their "brand". It is hard for me to not be cynical about it, but I guess it is a positive that this big corporation at least sees it as advantageous to their business to be seen as allied to some worthy cause even if I doubt they are actually doing much about it.

Edit: Something like "We here at Big Oil corporation care deeply about the planet and we plant 100 trees every day. Here is a video of good looking actors dressed up as our employees planting some trees with inspiring music. Pay no attention to us spending millions on lobbying to reduce environmental regulations."

[merithyn]

This is what I meant about protest supporters being careful about picking their heroes, if they want to keep their credibility.  It sure looks to me like some here are making heroes out of those who trash stores to take some free shit with them, and somehow making it out that not only is taking 10 free pairs of pants further the cause of protests, but that it's a necessary part of a successful protests.  If you're against that, you're for people being killed by police with impunity.

Or maybe we're not about making any of this about those idiots trashing and looting stores.

No one is making them heroes here. We're just saying that it's not the point, and that's not where the focus should be.

[Solmyr]

Go fuck yourself.

No, no he said "virtue signalling" to you, that means he pwned you and he's the best at arguing. Everyone knows that's what that means.

See? I don't like them cheering on the needless destruction of shops and I am branded as against the cause of the protests.

You guys are heading for a civll war with this attitude.

I haven't cheered any destruction of shops. I just can't bring myself to care about it when there are far more important things being protested.

[Valmy]

Or maybe we're not about making any of this about those idiots trashing and looting stores.

No one is making them heroes here. We're just saying that it's not the point, and that's not where the focus should be.

Totally agree.

[Tamas]

Fine, I take it back. I just felt you were laying it on a bit thick, attacking the fact of people protecting shops from looting.

[The Brain]

Fine, I take it back. I just felt you were laying it on a bit thick, attacking the fact of people protecting shops from looting.

People in ivory towers often don't give a flying fuck about poor people.

[Sophie Scholl]

Patton Oswalt had a great post about virtue signalling the other day. "Y'know why you yell "virtue signaling" when you see anyone be an ally to the oppressed or abused or "othered"? 'Cuz you can't imagine an action not linked to a selfish motive. You can't accept someone wanting a better world without it directly benefiting them. It's beyond you."

Generally what I see as "virtue signaling" is when some big corporation releases a propaganda video saying how much they support whatever value they are trying to claim as part of their "brand". It is hard for me to not be cynical about it, but I guess it is a positive that this big corporation at least sees it as advantageous to their business to be seen as allied to some worthy cause even if I doubt they are actually doing much about it.

That understanding I can get behind. I feel like the whole term should be retired though. I am definitely sick of seeing the bullshit corporate posts "supporting" the cause of the moment or month while said corporation doesn't actually make any legitimate changes within their own practices that would show real support and belief in the post. The hollow bullshit is always there though and certain people just love seeing it I guess. The current crop of white text on black background without pictures stating they believe in the idea of Black Lives Matter are pretty dreadful.

[Oexmelin]

This is what I meant about protest supporters being careful about picking their heroes, if they want to keep their credibility.  It sure looks to me like some here are making heroes out of those who trash stores to take some free shit with them, and somehow making it out that not only is taking 10 free pairs of pants further the cause of protests, but that it's a necessary part of a successful protests.  If you're against that, you're for people being killed by police with impunity.

The only one who is making this false equivalency is you. No one is "my hero" for trashing and looting a Target. It's simply not my priority, my number one cause for concern. The difference, I think, is that I will not disqualify a protest because there will be looting. And yet, many people here are far from ready from disqualifying policing from repeated instances of brutality.

I can deplore looting. I wish it didn't happen. But it happens. It sucks. But I hate that people seem to require some ritual contrition about it, but throw their hands in the air the moment racism is evoked. I will not make it a condition of my engagement that protests be certified "escalation-free" before I engage. Because that's simply not a reasonable stance to take. Escalation - to the extend I do not produce it - is beyond my control. It may happen. It may not. My sincere belief is that escalation by cops has a lot more negative consequences than punctual looting. Because it has much longer-lasting effects.