The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[The Larch]

Honest question, is police reform a real possibility in the US at the moment? There seems to be so much disfunction and things gone wrong in the last decades that I wonder if it is realistic to expect some kind of change. Some departments seem to deserve outright disbanding and starting from scratch.

[Syt]

Honest question, is police reform a real possibility in the US at the moment? There seems to be so much disfunction and things gone wrong in the last decades that I wonder if it is realistic to expect some kind of change. Some departments seem to deserve outright disbanding and starting from scratch.

From what I understand it's hard because unlike in other countries the police forces and jurisdictions in the US are highly decentralized.

[Sheilbh]

From what I understand it's hard because unlike in other countries the police forces and jurisdictions in the US are highly decentralized.

Yeah. I've read stories of outrageous misconduct/investigation fuck-ups that keep being repeated in small towns, or rural areas and there's no accountability because the sheriff is elected. So their accountability is democratic in theory, but they keep being re-elected.

It should be slightly different in bigger cities I imagine because the chief of police/commissioner will answer to the mayor?

[The Larch]

Honest question, is police reform a real possibility in the US at the moment? There seems to be so much disfunction and things gone wrong in the last decades that I wonder if it is realistic to expect some kind of change. Some departments seem to deserve outright disbanding and starting from scratch.

From what I understand it's hard because unlike in other countries the police forces and jurisdictions in the US are highly decentralized.

I'm aware of that, but still some things could be done from the top, like stopping the issuing of military equipment to police forces.

[garbon]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/may/31/george-floyd-protests-latest-news-riots-us-cities-donald-trump-police-brutality-live?page=with:block-5ed4d1088f087122eca533a3#block-5ed4d1088f087122eca533a3

We've already reported how China's state media is using these protests as an opportunity to goad Donald Trump and deflect from its own government's treatment of Hong Kong and protesters in the city.

Iran is also getting in on the act. Its foreign ministry spokesman has just given this press conference that observers are saying is the first he's ever given in English, in which he directly addresses American protesters with messages of support.

Abas Aslani
@AbasAslani
#Iran's Foreign Ministry spox to American people: The world has heard your outcry over the State oppression. The world is standing with you...The American regime is perusing violence & bullying at home & abroad...Stop violence against your people & let them breathe.#GeorgeFloyd

His government doesn't deem Iranians worthy of the same support, if last November's nationwide protests are any indication. Security forces used teargas, live ammunition and other repressive measures to crush those demonstrations, which also involved riots and destruction of banks and state buildings. Estimates of how many were killed range from 304, according to Amnesty International, to about 1,500 according to Reuters. The Iranian government has not released its own figure.

[Razgovory]

America loves bullies.  Suspected crimes committed by law enforcement need to be taken care of at the federal level.  Have the FBI come in and frog-march them out.

[The Brain]

I think it's certainly possible to reform American law enforcement. All it takes is strong moral leadership from the very top.

[Syt]

It doesn't seem to help that a popular view appears to be that criminals deserve any bad treatment, legal or not. Well, unless they wear business suits and drive expensive cars.

[The Larch]

From what I understand it's hard because unlike in other countries the police forces and jurisdictions in the US are highly decentralized.

Yeah. I've read stories of outrageous misconduct/investigation fuck-ups that keep being repeated in small towns, or rural areas and there's no accountability because the sheriff is elected. So their accountability is democratic in theory, but they keep being re-elected.

It should be slightly different in bigger cities I imagine because the chief of police/commissioner will answer to the mayor?

But in this case the misconduct is on municipal police forces of mid-size orlarge cities, not rural police forces. I wonder, for instance, what could be done through training. Most of the brutality we see on the news seems to come from municipal police, not state troopers or guards or similar other bodies. Are the requiriments for training/oversight lower at municipal police? Who can get to act upon them, only the city or also the county or state, not to get to the federal level?

[The Larch]

It doesn't seem to help that a popular view appears to be that criminals deserve any bad treatment, legal or not. Well, unless they wear business suits and drive expensive cars.

Or that anybody wearing an uniform is a hero by default.

[DGuller]

I think it's certainly possible to reform American law enforcement. All it takes is strong moral leadership from the very top.

I don't think leadership is all it takes, police brutality and police impunity has become one of the polarized issues, and thus fixing them won't get the bipartisan buy-in.  Frankly speaking, I suspect that a great percentage of the population doesn't think that holding police back is a desirable thing as long as the "right people" are on the business end of it.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Perhaps we should prevent cops from wearing face coverings.  It would be nice to hold some of the these people responsible.

Violation of local guidelines.

In Hungary all police officers must wear a clear identifier. With riot police that's their ID number painted on their helmets, IIRC. This has been done since the unfortunate incidents during the 2006 riots. And since those riots are a big part of the current far-right foundation myth, the Orban regime dares not touch this rule, at least not yet.

Police here often cover their badge number, like this brave cop who maced a 10 year old:
https://twitter.com/zellieimani/status/1267057207172050944?s=20

[DGuller]

Covering up the badge number should be a crime in itself, just like filing away a serial number on a gun.  The very act seems to indicate premeditation to commit misconduct.

[HisMajestyBOB]

I would be surprised if it's not already against official department policy in most places. The problem is the rotten leadership that turns a blind eye and the thin blue line that closes ranks.

[DGuller]

I would be surprised if it's not already against official department policy in most places. The problem is the rotten leadership that turns a blind eye and the thin blue line that closes ranks.

Policy is one thing, crime is another.  It's a premeditation to violate constitutional rights, that's not a question of policy.  You're using the power of the law by continuing to wear the uniform while intentionally derailing the accountability part of the deal.  That's not to say that the way policing policies are enforced shouldn't be reformed, it's a whole other issue, and probably a much bigger one than this.