Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Eddie Teach]

That is not how it works in the old world dude.

They joined NATO and the EU, time to join the modern world. 

[Berkut]

Next stop American citizenship only for those who speak American.

Latvia is not the US.

It is foolish to try to pretend like their existential concerns have any parallel to the US.

Do you think such "existential concerns" trump human rights?

As in all questions of this sort, it depends on the concerns and what specific rights are being restricted and whether the threat justifies the restrictions.

My point is simply that garbon is a fool to try to judge Latvia situation by US standards - the US does not have to deal with anything like the threat they do now, and have in the past.

And let's be honest, our own record on dealing with perceived foreigners when we are under a threat doesn't leave us much room to be preaching to others. We rounded up people and shoved them into concentration camps when we had much less of a threat to us than Latvia is facing.

Thing is these aren't immigrants.  These are people who were born there.  And simply because the US has violated the civil rights of it's citizens in the past doesn't mean can criticize  these actions as they happen now.

It does mean that we should understand the power and fear involved, and that it isn't as simple as we might think it is, or wish it to be.

  Besides this "existential threat" hasn't actually materialized.

Are you kidding me? Russia invaded and occupied Latvia for decades. That threat most certainly DID materialize.

There is no big crisis on whether or not Latvia should be allowed to exist.  This is nothing less then petty tribalism, nationalism and "getting even".

It is that, and more than that. Pretending it isn't won't help.

[derspiess]

It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

Soviet Union broke up 70 years ago?  Damn, I'm old.

[Eddie Teach]

Do you consider Tommy and Lola to be West Virginians? 

[The Brain]

I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

[Tamas]

I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

[garbon]

I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

I'm shocked to see Europe resorting to ethno-tribal politics.

[Queequeg]

Guys my twitter is blowing up, looks like Russian units already in Luhansk.

[Eddie Teach]

I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

For such a keen libertarian, you're certainly favoring nationalism over individual rights here.

[DGuller]

I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

I'm shocked to see Europe resorting to ethno-tribal politics.

There is no good way to reconcile modern moral standards and ethnically-based countries.  It's hard for Americans to really appreciate that, since our country is a melting pot.  Most countries are not melting pots, or just arbitrary entities on a geopolitical map, formed by an accident of history.  Most countries are a union of people sharing ethnicity and culture.  When the common element that defines the country is compromised, you have an existential threat.

[Martinus]

It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

The thing is they do not consider themselves Latvians.

[garbon]

I'm shocked, shocked, that Americans think it's A-OK for a big bully nation to invade other countries, fuck them up and then cry foul when the victims fight back.

I'm shocked to see Europe resorting to ethno-tribal politics.

There is no good way to reconcile modern moral standards and ethnically-based countries.

Indeed / why I don't have to support their policies even if one can accept why they have come about.

[garbon]

It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

The thing is they do not consider themselves Latvians.

Yeah if I didn't have citizenship where I was living, probably wouldn't consider myself a citizen either.

[Valmy]

Indeed / why I don't have to support their policies even if one can accept why they have come about.

Yep.  This is why I am not a big fan of ethnically based states.  Multinational states are far better.  Except France of course.

[Martinus]

Indeed / why I don't have to support their policies even if one can accept why they have come about.

Yep.  This is why I am not a big fan of ethnically based states.  Multinational states are far better.  Except France of course.

Only that most states in the world are like that. It's like saying you are not a fan of money based economy.