Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[DGuller]

By the way, your idol, JKM is the only staunchly pro-Putin politician in Poland.

But I do like him for being a proponent of classical liberalism, in economies if nothing else.

 

[Tamas]

By the way, your idol, JKM is the only staunchly pro-Putin politician in Poland.

But I do like him for being a proponent of classical liberalism, in economies if nothing else.

 

WHAT

[Martinus]

Tamas, I gotta tell you nothing gives me as much joy as watching Polish right wingers tying themselves in knots over their erstwhile support of Orban. Sure go ahead and denounce Western amoral liberalism - but know that this makes you a pal of the likes of China, Russia and Turkey.

By the way, your idol, JKM is the only staunchly pro-Putin politician in Poland. Hopefully this will make even his idiot supporters stop voting for him.

He is not my "idol" since as you point out, often trolling the general consensus seems more important for him than just being a politician for his side. But I do like him for being a proponent of classical liberalism, in economies if nothing else. Need more of that in Eastern Europe.

He does not stand out as a "proponent of classical liberalism", since the region's economy (at least in Poland) is already highly deregulated and laissez-faire. What he is a proponent of is a complete dismantling of any safety nets or things like socialised education or healthcare (I believe he believes that even primary education should be privatised and should be paid out of pockets of the parents). In a country like Poland, where the public sector is already very weak, things like this do not make him an economic genius, but a sociopath with serious empathy issues.

The fact that he used the word "nigger" in his first European Parliament's speech he gave, and believes that women in marriage cannot be raped and that disabled children should not be showed on tv not to create bad role models for "normal children" (or that fact that both Wilders and LePen did not form a group with him in the European Parliament, saying he is too "extreme" and "controversial") really shows that this guy is human garbage.

[Jacob]

He does not stand out as a "proponent of classical liberalism", since the region's economy (at least in Poland) is already highly deregulated and laissez-faire. What he is a proponent of is a complete dismantling of any safety nets or things like socialised education or healthcare (I believe he believes that even primary education should be privatised and should be paid out of pockets of the parents). In a country like Poland, where the public sector is already very weak, things like this do not make him an economic genius, but a sociopath with serious empathy issues.

Makes sense that Tamas likes him, then.

[derspiess]

Ah, there's our old Marty.  Welcome back, sir.

[Tamas]

Tamas, I gotta tell you nothing gives me as much joy as watching Polish right wingers tying themselves in knots over their erstwhile support of Orban. Sure go ahead and denounce Western amoral liberalism - but know that this makes you a pal of the likes of China, Russia and Turkey.

By the way, your idol, JKM is the only staunchly pro-Putin politician in Poland. Hopefully this will make even his idiot supporters stop voting for him.

He is not my "idol" since as you point out, often trolling the general consensus seems more important for him than just being a politician for his side. But I do like him for being a proponent of classical liberalism, in economies if nothing else. Need more of that in Eastern Europe.

He does not stand out as a "proponent of classical liberalism", since the region's economy (at least in Poland) is already highly deregulated and laissez-faire. What he is a proponent of is a complete dismantling of any safety nets or things like socialised education or healthcare (I believe he believes that even primary education should be privatised and should be paid out of pockets of the parents). In a country like Poland, where the public sector is already very weak, things like this do not make him an economic genius, but a sociopath with serious empathy issues.

The fact that he used the word "nigger" in his first European Parliament's speech he gave, and believes that women in marriage cannot be raped and that disabled children should not be showed on tv not to create bad role models for "normal children" (or that fact that both Wilders and LePen did not form a group with him in the European Parliament, saying he is too "extreme" and "controversial") really shows that this guy is human garbage.

I can't fathom why on earth some Hungarian IT guy would suddenly became his supporter. Do you know some idiot Pole there in London who is a fan of his or something?

[Martinus]

Do you dispute anything I said in the first two paragraphs (deleted the third as it was an ad hom).

[garbon]

Ah, there's our old Marty.  Welcome back, sir.

Yeah, I guess the grace period is over.

[alfred russel]

Why doesn't he just leave the EU and rejoin the Warsaw Pact?

Warsaw might resist that arrangement.

[Razgovory]

Next stop American citizenship only for those who speak American.

Latvia is not the US.

It is foolish to try to pretend like their existential concerns have any parallel to the US.

Do you think such "existential concerns" trump human rights?

As in all questions of this sort, it depends on the concerns and what specific rights are being restricted and whether the threat justifies the restrictions.

My point is simply that garbon is a fool to try to judge Latvia situation by US standards - the US does not have to deal with anything like the threat they do now, and have in the past.

And let's be honest, our own record on dealing with perceived foreigners when we are under a threat doesn't leave us much room to be preaching to others. We rounded up people and shoved them into concentration camps when we had much less of a threat to us than Latvia is facing.

Thing is these aren't immigrants.  These are people who were born there.  And simply because the US has violated the civil rights of it's citizens in the past doesn't mean can criticize  these actions as they happen now.  Besides this "existential threat" hasn't actually materialized.  There is no big crisis on whether or not Latvia should be allowed to exist.  This is nothing less then petty tribalism, nationalism and "getting even".

[Tamas]

Do you dispute anything I said in the first two paragraphs (deleted the third as it was an ad hom).

I am having troubles imagining Poland being laisez faire haven, although I am blindly conceding that it is better in that regard than Hungary.

And I would never want JKM himself to rule a country, but he does say a lot of things I agree with. And some stupid idiotic things to which are then convenient points to focus on for those who want to dismiss libertarian ideas as idiotic.

And I would much rather talk about a Hungarian libertarian politician but there isn't any.

Anyways, lets get back on topic.

[Tamas]

Next stop American citizenship only for those who speak American.

Latvia is not the US.

It is foolish to try to pretend like their existential concerns have any parallel to the US.

Do you think such "existential concerns" trump human rights?

As in all questions of this sort, it depends on the concerns and what specific rights are being restricted and whether the threat justifies the restrictions.

My point is simply that garbon is a fool to try to judge Latvia situation by US standards - the US does not have to deal with anything like the threat they do now, and have in the past.

And let's be honest, our own record on dealing with perceived foreigners when we are under a threat doesn't leave us much room to be preaching to others. We rounded up people and shoved them into concentration camps when we had much less of a threat to us than Latvia is facing.

Thing is these aren't immigrants.  These are people who were born there.  And simply because the US has violated the civil rights of it's citizens in the past doesn't mean can criticize  these actions as they happen now.  Besides this "existential threat" hasn't actually materialized.  There is no big crisis on whether or not Latvia should be allowed to exist.  This is nothing less then petty tribalism, nationalism and "getting even".

Those people, although I agree they probably haven't made that choice personally, are from the nation who forcefully occupied the Baltic States. In fact the only reason they could move there was that they were under the umbrella of their own occupying army and were considered the "same country". They are remnants of an occupation force.

[Eddie Teach]

It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

[Valmy]

It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

That is not how it works in the old world dude.  The Jews of Warsaw were there for like 400 years and that did not make the Poles.

[Tamas]

It's been 70 years, they're Latvians now.

You know nothing Jon Snow. There were roughly 3 million Hungarians left on the other side of the border following the Versailles peace treaty. 96 years later there are still 1.5 millions of them, those who dared openly declaring themselves as such.