Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-26

[The Minsky Moment]

Again I admire him a lot and to an extent a little light corruption may be necessary to have things moving.

"Light corruption" is tolerating a labor minister that traffics in a few kickbacks or an environment minister that takes a few envelopes for some regulatory forbearance.  Not replacing the highest civilian official responsible for overseeing the war with a gas oligarch. 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

It would be hilarious if fedorov was made prime minister

[DGuller]

I think Zelensky has been a strong wartime leader of Ukraine, and maybe been the difference between it taking the first punch and getting routed early in 2022.  However, I also think that he has qualities that can lose Ukraine the peace (or, for that matter, the war it hasn't won yet).

[Sophie Scholl]

"It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them." 

[Josquius]

It would be sad if all this is political and about securing Zelensky as a Ukrainian Putin.
As if he obeyed the rules he could really go down in history as a hero of democracy.

[Maladict]

It would be sad if all this is political and about securing Zelensky as a Ukrainian Putin.
As if he obeyed the rules he could really go down in history as a hero of democracy.

If he stepped down now he would, too. He's been in power for over seven years out of a maximum 5+5, and the military situation is fairly stable. Let someone else take the hit of a less than perfect peace deal.

[Tamas]

Power transfer in an oligarchic feudalistic state like Ukraine in a middle of an existential war? Maybe not.

[Valmy]

I think a lot of people are just uninformed about the condition of Ukraine before their conflict with Russia. They were a corrupt fading nation in the hands of oligarchs, sort of like Russia without Putin. That was the whole reason they kept having those popular movements trying to westernize.

[Josquius]

I think a lot of people are just uninformed about the condition of Ukraine before their conflict with Russia. They were a corrupt fading nation in the hands of oligarchs, sort of like Russia without Putin. That was the whole reason they kept having those popular movements trying to westernize.

A lot don't know this yes. Though even amongst those who do I think there was a bit of a belief that Zelensky was something different and trying to break this- indeed that this was a key factor in Russia invading.

Also on the fading nation part....quite the nation of two halves. Sure the Donbass was corrupt oligarch soviet industry land. But Lviv had quite the modern western aligned knowledge economy.

[mongers]

How do you figure they are impossible to defend against?

Raz questioning of what are legitimate targets vs normal parts of civilian life, is brought into focus by this attack on those twin huge 'amazon-type' online distribution warehouses, that killed several people.

The Ukrainian justification is that Russians were buying personal military equipment like goggles and body-protection for their family members in the Russian Army.

To my mind that seems too thin a justification, if accepted then the Iranian regime could claim terrorist/sabotage attacks on US Amazon warehouses are legitimate as no doubt some US families buy things to send to relatives serving in the US military.

What then isn't a military target?

EditL
Oops not sure I've put this in the right thread, but couldn't find the discussion that was being had about this.

[DGuller]

Looks like protests may actually be successful.   The butcher may actually get fired, and Fedorov might be reinstated.  That would be something if it happened.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

People power in Ukraine is by itself one of the great victories of Maidan and the war the Russians unleashed that same year.
Civil society remains quite uncowed. What a difference with Russia

[The Minsky Moment]

Oops not sure I've put this in the right thread, but couldn't find the discussion that was being had about this.

This is the better place for it.
It was an odd thread because I started by saying the ICC *should* investigate Ukrainian actions, but then somehow got accused of applying double standards.

I agree the justification for that particular strike appears weak.

Military strikes on economic targets are a gray area because although it is permissible to target an adversary's capabilities for carrying on a conflict, most economic capabilities are "fungible" in that they support both military and civilian functions.  Very roughly speaking, these strikes are usually evaluated on a proportionality standard, which is not a clear, bright line rule. 

[crazy canuck]

Again I admire him a lot and to an extent a little light corruption may be necessary to have things moving.

"Light corruption" is tolerating a labor minister that traffics in a few kickbacks or an environment minister that takes a few envelopes for some regulatory forbearance.  Not replacing the highest civilian official responsible for overseeing the war with a gas oligarch. 

Turns out the battle was between the general commanding the armed forces and the minister of defense.  He chose unwisely and sacked the minister of defence instead of the general.  He has now rectified that mistake.

[The Minsky Moment]

Yeah the gas guy was named PM.