Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Zanza]

Saw a snippet of news announcing that Russia had retaken some city of Eastern Ukraine, but I can't find anything online about it.

Anyone can confirm the rumour?

Shoigu claimed to have taken Marjinka near Donezk, Bit Ukraine denied this. It's one of the ghost towns near the 2014 frontline .

[Sheilbh]

A Russian landing ship blew up a few hours ago:

That'll be harder to replace than artillery shells or press-ganged infantry.

The UK Defence Secretary posted on this. I was not aware that Ukraine have destroyed 20% of the Black Sea Fleet in the last four months.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The clearing of the black sea is a major, if quite unsung, achievement of Ukraine in 2023.

Apparently there's a video doing the rounds where the Ukrainians present the F16. So I'm guessing they may be very close to having them, or may already have them.

[Admiral Yi]

The clearing of the black sea is a major, if quite unsung, achievement of Ukraine in 2023.

Please tell me what this means.

[Zoupa]

The clearing of the black sea is a major, if quite unsung, achievement of Ukraine in 2023.

Please tell me what this means.

The main benefit is economic. Ukraine has re-opened its sea lanes, mainly from Odesa but also from the smaller Danube ports, without having to sign any kind of deal like they had to last year with the grain initiative.

The russki back sea fleet has been forced to mainly depart from their home port of Sebastopol in Crimea, relocating to russia proper, and effectively out of range for any interference with shipping.

[Admiral Yi]

Cool.

[Admiral Yi]

But isn't shipping still vulnerable to air or land-based missile strikes?

[Zoupa]

But isn't shipping still vulnerable to air or land-based missile strikes?

The ships hug Ukraine's coast and are under air defense. Then it's a short trek to Romanian waters and russia can't do shit.

To be clear they still attack docked ships and port infrastructures with iranian drones and missiles, but it must not be terribly effective as shipping has resumed to an almost pre-war level. No idea how this is profitable as I imagine insurance costs have skyrocketed but hey, ships are moving so it's good in my book.

[Sheilbh]

Please tell me what this means.

Russia's uninterrupted history of naval glory continues - in this case having one of its fleets severely crippled by a country without warships.

In addition to Zoups' points I think the Black Sea Fleet is symbolically important for Russia and Ukraine. I also think - as with the Houthis being able to force a re-direct of 15% of global shipping despite two US aircraft carriers in the region - that it maybe reflects a shift in naval power? Could be an example of asymmetrical naval warfare? Rockets and drones (naval and air) v big manned ships? Maybe forcing navies out into open water more and more?

[grumbler]

Russia's uninterrupted history of naval glory continues - in this case having one of its fleets severely crippled by a country without warships.

In addition to Zoups' points I think the Black Sea Fleet is symbolically important for Russia and Ukraine. I also think - as with the Houthis being able to force a re-direct of 15% of global shipping despite two US aircraft carriers in the region - that it maybe reflects a shift in naval power? Could be an example of asymmetrical naval warfare? Rockets and drones (naval and air) v big manned ships? Maybe forcing navies out into open water more and more?

Ships vs shore has been a core element of naval warfare since Ug first shot his bow at Thug in his canoe.  It's not really asymmetric naval warfare in that it doesn't involve novel strategies or tactics on the part of the shore-based side of the warfare, just new weapons (which have changed over time since as far back as we have histories).

[Sheilbh]

Ships vs shore has been a core element of naval warfare since Ug first shot his bow at Thug in his canoe.  It's not really asymmetric naval warfare in that it doesn't involve novel strategies or tactics on the part of the shore-based side of the warfare, just new weapons (which have changed over time since as far back as we have histories).

I meant more a country with basically now navy like Ukraine or non-state actors without one like the Houthis having this sort of impact seems novel - or is it not?

And then navies will adapt/change and the cycle goes on.

[The Minsky Moment]

The Houthis have been able to operate because the opposing forces have chosen as a matter of policy to limit their response.  If the gloves came off, that situation would look rather different.

As for Ukraine, while it lacks a surface navy, it has access to a variety of modern weaponry and surveillance and intelligence assets; exposing one's ships to the search and strike range of such an adversary is always going to be dangerous.

[Admiral Yi]

The suicide attack on the USS Cole happened quite a while ago.

[viper37]

Saw a snippet of news announcing that Russia had retaken some city of Eastern Ukraine, but I can't find anything online about it.

Anyone can confirm the rumour?

Shoigu claimed to have taken Marjinka near Donezk, Bit Ukraine denied this. It's one of the ghost towns near the 2014 frontline .

Thanks.  Not a major movement in any case.  Still some back and forth over a few meters of trench lines.

[grumbler]

I meant more a country with basically now navy like Ukraine or non-state actors without one like the Houthis having this sort of impact seems novel - or is it not?

And then navies will adapt/change and the cycle goes on.

Japan after Nov 1944 had basically no navy, but still had an impact off of, say, Okinawa.