Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Much as I'd like to blame Germany, in realistic terms, it might be hard to.

Winter is coming up pretty soon, if Putin decided to go all EMBARGO ON - WHO RUNS BARTERTOWN? with natural gas, how fucked are the Germans?  I imagine conjuring up an alternate way, short-notice way to heat their homes won't be very simple.

given that they burned all the jews in '45...   

[Martinus]

Submissive homosexuals have always been fascinated by the reckless aggression of the Russian state. Nothing new here.

Uhm, no. 

Everyone knows you will be all over Russian boots when they march down the streets of Moscow 

And if not, exceptions prove the rule

[Martinus]

Much as I'd like to blame Germany, in realistic terms, it might be hard to.

Winter is coming up pretty soon, if Putin decided to go all EMBARGO ON - WHO RUNS BARTERTOWN? with natural gas, how fucked are the Germans?  I imagine conjuring up an alternate way, short-notice way to heat their homes won't be very simple.

Incidentally, in times like this, gotta love the Europe's Green Party. If coal is a no-no, extraction of shale gas under Europe is a no-no, drilling for oil in the North Sea is a no-no, and the nuclear power is a no-no, it's hard to see how they are not paid off by Putin (and if they are doing it for free, they are even greater idiots).

[Ed Anger]

Putin decided to go all EMBARGO ON - WHO RUNS BARTERTOWN?

I laughed at the reference.

[Martim Silva]

Much as I'd like to blame Germany, in realistic terms, it might be hard to.

Winter is coming up pretty soon, if Putin decided to go all EMBARGO ON - WHO RUNS BARTERTOWN? with natural gas, how fucked are the Germans?  I imagine conjuring up an alternate way, short-notice way to heat their homes won't be very simple.

Not much.

Even though Germany does import large amounts of Russian gas, its actual consumption is not that large - believe it or not, Germany has been reselling (at a discount) the gas it gets from Russia to other nations, especially to the Ukraine.

And while a Russian gas embargo will be a problem for several EU nations, it would also be a problem for Russia, as it would lose its gas revenues - Moscow has tried to solve this by selling gas to the Chinese (after years of botched negotiations, they were forced this year to accept Chinese demands of cheaper gas - East Asia traditionally pays more for it's gas), the fact remains that they's still bullding the ducts to China, and those aren't expected to be finished before 2018.

P.S. - Socialist fighters from Europe have been going to fight for Russia; Moscow has successfully been playing it's 'anti-fascist' card. And the sooner most of you get into your heads that the Kremlin is trying to present itself as the anti-fascist successor to the USSR, the better.

[Tamas]

Putin is really giving full throttle to his "30s' Hitler" impersonation:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/01/kazakhstan-russian-neighbour-putin-chilly-nationalist-rhetoric

[Admiral Yi]

P.S. - Socialist fighters from Europe have been going to fight for Russia; Moscow has successfully been playing it's 'anti-fascist' card. And the sooner most of you get into your heads that the Kremlin is trying to present itself as the anti-fascist successor to the USSR, the better.

That says much more about the stupidity of the socialist fighters than it does about the legitimacy of Russia's position.

[Ideologue]

P.S. - Socialist fighters from Europe have been going to fight for Russia; Moscow has successfully been playing it's 'anti-fascist' card. And the sooner most of you get into your heads that the Kremlin is trying to present itself as the anti-fascist successor to the USSR, the better.

Interesting.  Is there a pamphlet I can read?

[grumbler]

P.S. - Socialist fighters from Europe have been going to fight for Russia; Moscow has successfully been playing it's 'anti-fascist' card. And the sooner most of you get into your heads that the Kremlin is trying to present itself as the anti-fascist successor to the USSR, the better.

That says much more about the stupidity of the socialist fighters than it does about the legitimacy of Russia's position.

So Putin is making himself out to be a modern Stalin?  The sooner the loonies who moan for the loss of "the Union" get it into their head that that's not a healthy comparison to make for one's self, the better.

[Liep]

Tusk is already pulling out the big guns and is calling Russia for Nazis. That'll stop 'em.

[Sheilbh]

I think you are wrong (could be about how media are reporting this in the West - this is, obviously, a much bigger topic here in Poland) - essentially, my impression is that every time there is an escalation of the conflict in Ukraine, there is a new round of sanctions. From that perspective, since the shooting down of the plane was, obviously, an escalation, there was a new round of sanctions, but there were sanctions before and after that, too, and the ones connected with the plane were not particularly stronger or outstanding.

The EU ones were significantly stronger. But they won't have an immediate effect. What would be best is if the EU could, say, get the French to cancel their Mistral sale to Russia and block Russia from SWIFT.

The UK, Nordics and Baltics have also announced plans to create a new joint expeditionary force. Admittedly it took an age for the Anglo-French one to get going so this'll take a while, but it's a good idea.

Anti-fascists....fighting FOR the Russians?
They're not doing it right.

Must be nostalgia for the USSR support in the Civil War?

Incidentally, in times like this, gotta love the Europe's Green Party. If coal is a no-no, extraction of shale gas under Europe is a no-no, drilling for oil in the North Sea is a no-no, and the nuclear power is a no-no, it's hard to see how they are not paid off by Putin (and if they are doing it for free, they are even greater idiots).

Yep

[Sheilbh]

Tusk is already pulling out the big guns and is calling Russia for Nazis. That'll stop 'em.

That's rhetoric that won't travel well in most of the rest of Europe

[Razgovory]

Let's say Russia does use tactical nukes.  What exactly can we do about it?  I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't see how the nuclear game doesn't play into the hands of the crazier actor.

It would make them a pariah, but besides that there's nothing else we can do.  Actually there are lots of things we can do, but nobody has the stomach for them.

[Syt]

Russia restates that they will take further NATO expansion in Eastern Europe into account in their military planning.

One thing that the Russians don't seem to understand - yes, it's somewhat understandable that they have some political interest in what goes on in their neighboring countries and want friendly governments there.

What they don't seem to get is that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Membership in NATO or the EU is voluntary, and something countries work on to achieve.

Bringing countries into the Russian sphere usually means pushing, bullying and threatening. I wonder why so many countries prefer looking westward, then.

The sad thing is that I'm sure that Russia thinks the West is doing the same, but being deceitful about it by hiding behind their so called Western values.

[Tamas]

Russia restates that they will take further NATO expansion in Eastern Europe into account in their military planning.

One thing that the Russians don't seem to understand - yes, it's somewhat understandable that they have some political interest in what goes on in their neighboring countries and want friendly governments there.

What they don't seem to get is that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Membership in NATO or the EU is voluntary, and something countries work on to achieve.

Bringing countries into the Russian sphere usually means pushing, bullying and threatening. I wonder why so many countries prefer looking westward, then.

The sad thing is that I'm sure that Russia thinks the West is doing the same, but being deceitful about it by hiding behind their so called Western values.

Well that has been Russia since Muscovy adopted the modus operandi of the Mongol hordes.

And I am seriously getting 1930s vibes. The similarities are frightening. Some countries slipping to autocracy, with the great power losing the previous global conflict being not just more and more autocratic, but more and more vocal about regaining the territories lost.