Russia Violates Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty

[derspiess]

Actually I don't know what you were talking about in particular.

  Btw I bottled my Razgovory Wheat Beer last weekend.  Should be ready to test on Friday.

[Eddie Teach]

Wait, we are comparing intro Obama to intro Bush and discussing Putin, and we aren't talking about Bush looking into Putin's soul and seeing goodness?

Maybe Putin was borrowing one.

[Syt]

Gerhard Schröder said when he was chancellor that Putin was a "flawless democrat," and why would he lie?

[The Brain]

Gerhard Schröder said when he was chancellor that Putin was a "flawless democrat," and why would he lie?

Obama wants to create the USSA.

[Valmy]

The Russian diplomat said it was very regretful the US foreign policy doctrine does not extend beyond the use of sanctions and quasi-sanctions in reply for all events that do not satisfy their current desires.

Damn people usually whine we bomb too much.  Now they whine we stop at sanctions.  There is just no satisfying people.

[The Minsky Moment]

User comment:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/us-says-russia-breached-nuclear-treaty

With each passing day, the fascist regime in Washington finds new ways to try and reignite the cold war. Its like a flashback to the scene in Doctor Strangelove, in which George C. Scott's character laments the (then) alliance between the US and Germany, wishing we could become enemies again so we could have a proper war. Only this time the comedy is much, much darker.

I wonder why the Russians do not protest over the US contributions to the nuclear weapons programs of India and Israel, two of the nuclear powers that have not signed the Nonproliferation Treaty.

The Russians don't protest over Israel because the key contributor there was France, not the US.  They don't protest over India because it was the USSR that provided technical assistance to transform the civilian nuclear program in India into a viable weapons program, and the Russian regime is ill-placed to complain about past Soviet action.

There really needs to be an emergency medical outreach to Guardian readers to treat their allergy to facts.

[Razgovory]

Actually I don't know what you were talking about in particular.

  Btw I bottled my Razgovory Wheat Beer last weekend.  Should be ready to test on Friday.

Sweet!  Drink in good health!

[DGuller]

In public perception, the first one is way worse.  Second one doesn't get rehashed nearly as much.

It's not 2016 yet.

[Razgovory]

In public perception, the first one is way worse.  Second one doesn't get rehashed nearly as much.

It's not 2016 yet.

The first one was related to deaths of thousands of Americans and God knows how many Iraqis.  The second one, not so much.

[DGuller]

In public perception, the first one is way worse.  Second one doesn't get rehashed nearly as much.

It's not 2016 yet.

The first one was related to deaths of thousands of Americans and God knows how many Iraqis.  The second one, not so much.

The enemies that you created are not as scary as the enemies that chose to become your enemy.  Misjudging the first type is not nearly as dangerous as misjudging the second type.

[Razgovory]

Wait, what?

[LaCroix]

The second, in hindsight (and actually even at the time for many of us) was clearly just showing Russia how amateur the Obama Administration was...

this comment is loaded with hindsight, though. i don't think the obama administration has been perfect, but at that time it was a worthwhile attempt

[CountDeMoney]

"A weapon capability that violates the I.N.F., that is introduced into the greater European land mass, is absolutely a tool that will have to be dealt with," he said in an interview in April. "It can't go unanswered." Mr. Obama has determined that the United States will not retaliate against the Russians by violating the treaty and deploying its own prohibited medium-range system, officials said. So the responses might include deploying sea- and air-launched cruise missiles, which would be an allowable under the accord.

Considering Dubya withdrew from the ABM Treaty--notably the first time the US abrogated its responsibilities to the concept of arms control to work on the MDA Maginot Line, how's that for American exceptionalism in global leadership--I don't see how this is worse.

[Berkut]

The second, in hindsight (and actually even at the time for many of us) was clearly just showing Russia how amateur the Obama Administration was...

this comment is loaded with hindsight, though. i don't think the obama administration has been perfect, but at that time it was a worthwhile attempt

I can see why you would think that, but in fact I thought it was naive and amateurish even at the time.

Hindsight just proves that my fears were right.

[Berkut]

"A weapon capability that violates the I.N.F., that is introduced into the greater European land mass, is absolutely a tool that will have to be dealt with," he said in an interview in April. "It can't go unanswered." Mr. Obama has determined that the United States will not retaliate against the Russians by violating the treaty and deploying its own prohibited medium-range system, officials said. So the responses might include deploying sea- and air-launched cruise missiles, which would be an allowable under the accord.

Considering Dubya withdrew from the ABM Treaty--notably the first time the US abrogated its responsibilities to the concept of arms control to work on the MDA Maginot Line, how's that for American exceptionalism in global leadership--I don't see how this is worse.

Not even remotely the same.

Bush withdrew from the treaty - a treaty is not a "till death do us part" pact. The US notified Russia that it had decided that their interests were no longer served by the treaty, and they would be ending it.

That is not the same at all as violating a treaty that you've agreed to.