Russia Violates Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty

[derspiess]

The second, in hindsight (and actually even at the time for many of us) was clearly just showing Russia how amateur the Obama Administration was...

Yep.  There's something to be said for trying to improve relations with Russia at that time, but gimmicky gestures like that just get under my skin.  What also annoyed me was how they seemed to be throwing the previous administration under the bus, as if the Bush Administration had been mostly responsible for poor US-Russia relations.

[Berkut]

The second, in hindsight (and actually even at the time for many of us) was clearly just showing Russia how amateur the Obama Administration was...

Yep.  There's something to be said for trying to improve relations with Russia at that time, but gimmicky gestures like that just get under my skin.  What also annoyed me was how they seemed to be throwing the previous administration under the bus, as if the Bush Administration had been mostly responsible for poor US-Russia relations.

Having finished reading Gates memoir, I think that is exactly how the Obama administration thought at that time. That the previous occupants were just unthinking goons, and *they* were the smart ones, and THEY could get this sorted out, because doesn't everyone really just want to get along? We just need to show the world that we are NOTBUSH and things will work themselves out.

[grumbler]

Having finished reading Gates memoir, I think that is exactly how the Obama administration thought at that time. That the previous occupants were just unthinking goons, and *they* were the smart ones, and THEY could get this sorted out, because doesn't everyone really just want to get along? We just need to show the world that we are NOTBUSH and things will work themselves out.

Obama got Nobel Prize just for thinking this.

[Syt]

http://rt.com/politics/176396-moscow-usa-reset-unlikely/

Top Russian diplomat expects no new reset in relations with US



Russia's deputy foreign minister says relations with the US will not improve in the near future, as Washington's sanctions policy has already gone too far.

"Of course, there will be no new 'reset' like the one that happened a few years ago, and that yielded some positive results, I am still sure that this period was marked with a number of positive changes in Russian-US relations. But now I cannot foresee or expect anything like this," Sergey Ryabkov said in an interview with the Russian media.

"It is unlikely, because Washington has gone too far in its anti-Russian rhetoric and the constant urge to punish us for something, now it will be difficult to 'rewind' the situation," he noted.

The Russian diplomat said it was very regretful the US foreign policy doctrine does not extend beyond the use of sanctions and quasi-sanctions in reply for all events that do not satisfy their current desires.

Ryabkov also said that Russian authorities were facing a major setback in cooperation with the United States and this setback was because of the US initiative.

"We have not touched a single issue in order to, let's say, demonstratively influence the minds and moods in Washington. Everything we are doing is just a reciprocal measure and a reaction to the inadmissible steps performed by the USA," he said.

The traditional cooperation formats have already been frozen, and the possibility of their restoration remains rather vague in the current conditions, the official stated. The Russian side would like to hope these were not liquidated completely, he said.

Still, the top Russian diplomat emphasized that Moscow would continue the dialogue and would calmly inform all its partners about Russia's positions on all issues, defending its interests.

Ryabkov's statements came against a background of the threat of new sanctions against Russian companies and officials that come from Washington and Brussels. Earlier this year the USA, the EU and several US allies, like Canada and Australia introduced entry bans and asset freezes against Russian officials, politicians and heads of state-owned corporations over Russia's alleged complicity in the current crisis in Ukraine and the accession of the Crimean Republic into the Russian Federation that was strongly opposed by the West, despite being almost unanimously welcomed by Crimeans.

[KRonn]

The second, in hindsight (and actually even at the time for many of us) was clearly just showing Russia how amateur the Obama Administration was...

Yep.  There's something to be said for trying to improve relations with Russia at that time, but gimmicky gestures like that just get under my skin.  What also annoyed me was how they seemed to be throwing the previous administration under the bus, as if the Bush Administration had been mostly responsible for poor US-Russia relations.

Having finished reading Gates memoir, I think that is exactly how the Obama administration thought at that time. That the previous occupants were just unthinking goons, and *they* were the smart ones, and THEY could get this sorted out, because doesn't everyone really just want to get along? We just need to show the world that we are NOTBUSH and things will work themselves out.

Yep, agreed. I think the Obama admin felt that their words and good vibes would go a long way to win over others, but many, like Putin, read that as breathing room and a green light to continue on how they wanted.

For Bush with the "Mission Accomplished" that was a mistake and the whole episode of him landing on the carrior should never have been done, because winning in the Iraq invasion was by far the easier part than winning the occupation which would be long and costly, as they should have realized. If they didn't realize it then they were even bigger fools for such a huge mishandling of the situation.

[celedhring]

Wait, they did actually make a photo-op with the reset button? Jesus Christ, I thought it was just a figure of speech.

That said, I think there was nothing bad in trying to normalize relations with Russia at that moment though, the US doesn't have that many actual interests in there when you really think of it, and it was sensible to focus elsewhere.

[Berkut]

Nothing at all bad with trying to normalize relations - that isn't the issue. It is the means to that end that was such a fuck up.

That being said, I don't think it was likely possible to normalize relations really, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying.

[CountDeMoney]

In public perception, the first one is way worse.  Second one doesn't get rehashed nearly as much.

I had no idea Merkel was on Letterman.

[alfred russel]

Wait, we are comparing intro Obama to intro Bush and discussing Putin, and we aren't talking about Bush looking into Putin's soul and seeing goodness?

That was much more stupid and cringeworthy than the reset button.

[alfred russel]

Wait, they did actually make a photo-op with the reset button? Jesus Christ, I thought it was just a figure of speech.

Supposedly they also misspelled the word "reset" in Russian.

[derspiess]

Wait, they did actually make a photo-op with the reset button? Jesus Christ, I thought it was just a figure of speech.

Supposedly they also misspelled the word "reset" in Russian.

DG ALERT

[Razgovory]

In public perception, the first one is way worse.  Second one doesn't get rehashed nearly as much.

Gets rehashed quite a bit on Breitbart.

[derspiess]

In public perception, the first one is way worse.  Second one doesn't get rehashed nearly as much.

Gets rehashed quite a bit on Breitbart.

Yeah, but I wasn't talking about the right wing echo chamber now, was I?

[KRonn]

Wait, they did actually make a photo-op with the reset button? Jesus Christ, I thought it was just a figure of speech.

Supposedly they also misspelled the word "reset" in Russian.

Maybe it meant something vulgar instead then... no wonder the reset didn't work!   

[Razgovory]

In public perception, the first one is way worse.  Second one doesn't get rehashed nearly as much.

Gets rehashed quite a bit on Breitbart.

Yeah, but I wasn't talking about the right wing echo chamber now, was I?

Actually I don't know what you were talking about in particular.