Austrian hotel has world's best wine list

[Gups]

Because going to a restaurant with a fine wine list is the only way to get fine wines which have been cellared properly unless you are have the resources to buy the wine and cellar it yourself or you can acquire it from someone other than a restaurant who has done it for you.  That later option is really only available if you travel to a vintner who keeps a portion of their in inventory cellared (rare but you can find them normally at the price of an expensive trip) or you have chosen your friends wisely.

Generally if you want a fine wine, going to a restaurant (absent a generous friend with a well stocked cellar) is the least expensive option.

Your kidding. You can easily buy fine wine for about half the price that a restauraunt will charge (although in fairness the mark up for fine wine is usually a lot less than for normal wines - 70% to 100% rather than 200-400%). There are loads of wine merchants who will very happily take your business and will deliver  by specialist courier perfectly cellared wine to you.



To take a random example

[The Minsky Moment]

perfectly cellared

Caveat emptor.

And caveat emptor what is in the bottle is what the label says.  There has been more 45 mouton or 61 lafite sold then was actually produced and bottled.

[crazy canuck]

Because going to a restaurant with a fine wine list is the only way to get fine wines which have been cellared properly unless you are have the resources to buy the wine and cellar it yourself or you can acquire it from someone other than a restaurant who has done it for you.  That later option is really only available if you travel to a vintner who keeps a portion of their in inventory cellared (rare but you can find them normally at the price of an expensive trip) or you have chosen your friends wisely.

Generally if you want a fine wine, going to a restaurant (absent a generous friend with a well stocked cellar) is the least expensive option.

Your kidding. You can easily buy fine wine for about half the price that a restauraunt will charge (although in fairness the mark up for fine wine is usually a lot less than for normal wines - 70% to 100% rather than 200-400%). There are loads of wine merchants who will very happily take your business and will deliver  by specialist courier perfectly cellared wine to you.



To take a random example

Of course you can go to a liquor store to pick up a bottle of good wine but normally you are buying a bottle from recent production depending upon how long the vintner lets the wine age in barrels or after bottling before releasing it for sale. 

If you have found a wine merchant who as access to any bottle you wish to purchase then that is remarkable and perhaps too good to be true.

[Gups]

perfectly cellared

Caveat emptor.

And caveat emptor what is in the bottle is what the label says.  There has been more 45 mouton or 61 lafite sold then was actually produced and bottled.

None of the wine merchants I deal with operate caveat empor. They will happily refund even if I just don't  like the wine I've bought. Of course , we are talking £10-£30 bottles here, so I don't know what the approach would be for a Petrus or whatever, but I imagine that theer would be similar issues with a restauraunt.

[Gups]

Of course you can go to a liquor store to pick up a bottle of good wine but normally you are buying a bottle from recent production depending upon how long the vintner lets the wine age in barrels or after bottling before releasing it for sale. 

If you have found a wine merchant who as access to any bottle you wish to purchase then that is remarkable and perhaps too good to be true.
[/quote]

I don't really follow. No restuaraunt has access to any bottle you'd wish to purchase either.

Any large wine merchant will have at least as comprehensive a list as the Austrian restauraunt.

[The Minsky Moment]

None of the wine merchants I deal with operate caveat empor. They will happily refund even if I just don't  like the wine I've bought. Of course , we are talking £10-£30 bottles here, so I don't know what the approach would be for a Petrus or whatever, but I imagine that theer would be similar issues with a restauraunt.

Unless the merchant has their own cellar they will have acquired the bottle from a collector so CE really applies.  Same in the auction market which I find terrifying.  I don't think its typical to refund in those circumstances but I've never been a buyer for these kinds of bottles other a couple bottles of vintage port, where cellaring issues are not as big a concern.

An advantage of a long-standing restaurant with its own cellar like this Austrian hotel is that there is somewhat more assurance as to the cellaring conditions and probably provenance (since presumably the restaurant bought on release).
Also a restaurant will always take back a bad bottle.

[Malthus]

Most impressive wine list I ever saw was in this fancy restaurant near Mont Tremblant in Quebec.

The funny part is that my wife and I were off-road biking on some trails when we saw this place - it was a mansion in a country setting near a public park. We were starving, but also, we were covered in mud and wearing dingy clothes to begin with.

Well, we decided to take a chance and inquired as to whether the place had a dress code. They did not, and had no objections to us as customers. We washed up as best we could in their washroom and sat for dinner.

The funny part was, this turned out to be a serious fancy restaurant - far more expensive than I would normally choose. Also, the entire clientele was elderly and in formal wear. We stood out.

On the other hand, the service we got could not have been more attentive and friendly. Their wine list was as thick as a telephone book (or so it seemed), but the special wine guy (sommelier?) must have spend ten minutes figuring out our tastes and choosing the wine for us - which was, in fact, excellent, and not the most expensive (though not cheap either). I think he was just happy to see someone under 70.

There were wines on that list for thousands of dollars ... I asked the guy if anyone ever ordered those: he said they did, generally for special occasions.

[Gups]

None of the wine merchants I deal with operate caveat empor. They will happily refund even if I just don't  like the wine I've bought. Of course , we are talking £10-£30 bottles here, so I don't know what the approach would be for a Petrus or whatever, but I imagine that theer would be similar issues with a restauraunt.

Unless the merchant has their own cellar they will have acquired the bottle from a collector so CE really applies.  Same in the auction market which I find terrifying.  I don't think its typical to refund in those circumstances but I've never been a buyer for these kinds of bottles other a couple bottles of vintage port, where cellaring issues are not as big a concern.

An advantage of a long-standing restaurant with its own cellar like this Austrian hotel is that there is somewhat more assurance as to the cellaring conditions and probably provenance (since presumably the restaurant bought on release).
Also a restaurant will always take back a bad bottle.

Merchants must operate differently in the States to the UK then. I deal with four merchants on a reasonably regular basis and they all have returns policies along these lines (from Berry Bros):

We are committed to providing our customers with an unsurpassed level of service and are equally committed to ensuring we provide a safe and legal product. If a wine is corked or faulty we will offer a replacement or credit on the return of the bottle in question. Many wines are sold to drink young so we offer a simple drinking guide to help clarify the optimum drinking time of all our wines. If a wine has been kept too long or stored inappropriately, we may not be able to offer a refund. If you believe a wine to be faulty please contact us on 0800 280 2440 or email us at [email protected] and we will be happy to make arrangements to have the wine collected and tested.

They do all have cellars, so that may make a difference

[The Minsky Moment]

Some of the old-time UK merchants do have big proper cellars; that isn't always the case here.

[crazy canuck]

I don't really follow. No restuaraunt has access to any bottle you'd wish to purchase either.

Any large wine merchant will have at least as comprehensive a list as the Austrian restauraunt.

As to the first point, we are talking about a restaurant that has the most impressive list.  Of course you are more likely to find a bottle in their cellar than at a wine merchant.  Because, of course, no merchant actually has their own wine cellar. 
As to the second point you are using the term "list" in two very different ways.  The Austrian restaurant has a list of the wine they have in their cellar and which you can be reasonably assured is what they say it is and has been properly cellared.

The usual wine merchant has a list of suppliers from whom they might acquire wine and it almost certainly does not contain wine that has been cellared for as long as the wines in the restaruant's cellar - and if you believe the opposite then you are much more trusting than I am.

It may be that the merchants's you deal with have their own cellars.  If that is true then you are very lucky.

[Gups]

OK, it does sound different. As I say, all decent wine merchants here have their own cellars in which they keep thier stock. They all offer cellaring services for customers buyin en primeur.

[The Minsky Moment]

The cellaring services are potentially risky.   I recall there being a scandal about one of the UK based ones.  Also here in NY a bunch of people got screwed when the cellar got flooded by Sandy and many of the bottles lost their labels. 

[Gups]

Feel perfectly safe as far as my small cache of claret is concerned. The wines are fully insured and I can't believe teh merchant is going to throw away a reputation built over 250 years by stiffing me.

[Monoriu]

The funny part was, this turned out to be a serious fancy restaurant - far more expensive than I would normally choose. Also, the entire clientele was elderly and in formal wear. We stood out.

I am so used to this that I don't care anymore.  When we go to the michelin restaurants in Europe, we are usually in our polo shirts, and everybody else are in their suits and ties.  My wife used to feel uneasy.  Now we just eat. 

[Josquius]

I wonder how long it will be before people can produce products that perfectly immitate old wines.
They do seem to be a bit of an oddity in todays world.