Soccer official killed

[Scipio]

The same way you can't call a policeman an asshole, but you can call your friends whatever the fuck you like.

In Mississippi, you can call our cops assholes and not be charged. Cause we're regressive that way. Cops are expected to be cursed at in the performance of their duties, and take it like a man.

[Valmy]

I don't see what is wrong with a coach yelling at an official who is pissing down the backs of his boys.

For some reason this made me think of this ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nnjNYrUK8E&feature=kp

Anyway if you have a problem with the way a game is officiated take it up with the conference office.  That is the civilized way to do things.

[Berkut]

So what can be done?

Plenty CAN be done.

Start holding coaches and players accountable for their actions.

An Athletic Director, for example, is a coaches boss, are they not?

If a coach acts like an ass, suspend him without pay. Send a message about what is and is not tolerated.

There is plenty that CAN be done, but likely won't be - because fundamentally, it is a matter of cultural priorities, and I am not sure that our culture values care enough about abstract concepts like "sportsmanship" when it runs up against the value we place on winning.

People spend years getting ready for events.

Of course - and the officials are no exception.

They often tolerate lots of unpleasant things because in fact winning is important.

Indeed - winning is important. It is important to the players, to the fans, to the coaches, to the school adminstrators.

It is important to everyone...except the officials. They are the only people involved for whom who wins is NOT important. And hence the only people involved for whom objectivity IS important, and hence the only people involved who get to rule on the rules.

The flip side to that coin is that since they are the only people who are objective, everyone else involved is NOTobjective...hence why should their opinion about the job of the people who ARE objective be relevant to anyone? What gives the coach or players the right to treat them like shit because a call did not go their way?

Winning is important to all the people participating. But it isn't the most important thing, and treating people with respect and sportsmanship is and should be more important.

Are coaches just to let an official wrongly deny his players the opportunities they deserve because it might hurt the official's feelings?

Coaches have almost no ability to judge whether an official is doing such a thing though. The vast, vast, VAST majority of the time a coach is acting like an ass towards an official, they are wrong.

And this has nothing to do with the officials feelings, it has to do with the values and atmosphere such behavior creates, and the message it sends.

The simple fact of the matter is that the coach has not ability, by definition, to objectively evaluate whether an official is doing a good job or not. They lack the training, the objectivity, and most importantly, the lack the attention - they are not paying attention to the officials, they are paying attention to their team.

If a player makes decisions that adversely effect his team's chance of winning, I assume that Coach K will chew his ass out. Why should an official be different?

Because an officials is not answerable to the coach, and a coach chewing out one of his players in an effort to adjust their play isn't an attack on the integrity of the game.

A ocach trying to intimidate an official into making the calls he wants the official to make is both unethical in that it is an attempt to unfairly influence the game, and it is immoral in that it shows a lack of sportsmanship, respect, and understanding of fair play.

Killing people obviously crosses the line.

But verbally assaulting them in a manner that would NEVER be tolerated in any other context is not crossing a line?

I think your entire post does a better job of probing my basic point than I ever could hope.

[Berkut]

So what can be done?

Plenty CAN be done.

Start holding coaches and players accountable for their actions.

An Athletic Director, for example, is a coaches boss, are they not?

If a coach acts like an ass, suspend him without pay. Send a message about what is and is not tolerated.

There is plenty that CAN be done, but likely won't be - because fundamentally, it is a matter of cultural priorities, and I am not sure that our culture values care enough about abstract concepts like "sportsmanship" when it runs up against the value we place on winning.

What if NASO refused to do games with teams that let their coaches and players act up? "Don't do that! Same time next week?" doesn't really suggest non-acceptance.

Sadly that simply isn't a realistic option, unless the behavior is just totally out of line.

We do not have anything like that kind of power.

That power has to come from the people that the coaches are answerable to, and it isn't the officials.

[Admiral Yi]

Berkut, players and coaches get verbal abuse thrown at them all the time, by opposing fans.  Would you like to see fans who yell at players (or at refs) ejected from games?

Would you like to see all sports conducted on the same lines as golf, or say tennis?

[Berkut]

Berkut, players and coaches get verbal abuse thrown at them all the time, by opposing fans.  Would you like to see fans who yell at players (or at refs) ejected from games?

Would you like to see all sports conducted on the same lines as golf, or say tennis?

I actually mostly give fans a pass - I figure getting all worked up at officials is part of the fun, within reason.

Plus, as an official, it is easy for me to ignore the fans. I don't really care what they say, as long as they don't say something that is going to incite a problem in the game.

I've only ever kicked a fan out of a game twice in my career. One kid he tried to get into a fight with one of the players on the court, and a mother who told her son to hit another player.

And no, I don't think sports need to be conducted as if we were at a tea party. Some getting on the officials is part of the game, and I don't mind a coach going off on me in a reasonable manner, within limits.


But that isn't what I am talking about - I am talking about coaches, players, fans who truly do operate under the idea that the official is out to get them, or "pissing down the backs of their players" such that it is reasonable to take a personal and insulting tone to the interaction.


I once had a coach go ballistic on me because I threw his player out of a game for spitting on another player.


I've had a coach at a high school game tell me I would never work another one of his school's game because I was "taking the emotion out of the game". My crime? I ejected his player for standing over an opposing player who was just badly injured in a play and "slow-clapping" and talking trash while the kid screamed in agony. Which of course resulted in another player going after him.


In both of these examples (and I can provide many more) the coach decided that *I* was the problem - that the "bad thing" that had happened was *my* behavior. Neither of them even considered whether the actions of their players was the problem, and hence the message sent to their players was that the official was the bad actor, not themselves.


In the second example above, that coach is still coaching at that school, and I've never been drawn there again, and never will be as long as he is the coach. He has that power.


Now, of course there are plenty of coaches, most coaches in fact, who would never ever tolerate that kind of bullshit from their players. Most coaches go off on their players when they do something stupid like that...but of course, the types of coaches who don't tolerate players acting that way also don't have players who act that way. It is no coincidence that the same programs tend to have more problem players, and they tend to be the ones with problem coaches.

[Valmy]

Well yeah part of the coach's job is to 'help' the officials get the call right next time 

I really hate when coaches totally lose their cool though or start calling out officiating in the post game press conference.  Just pathetic lack of professionalism from grown men.

[Siege]

Its soccer.
Who cares?

[alfred russel]

Anyway if you have a problem with the way a game is officiated take it up with the conference office.  That is the civilized way to do things.

I have written the conference office before (the ACC). The didn't reply to me. I doubt they took my comments seriously and I never got a reply back.

[Valmy]

Anyway if you have a problem with the way a game is officiated take it up with the conference office.  That is the civilized way to do things.

I have written the conference office before (the ACC). The didn't reply to me. I doubt they took my comments seriously and I never got a reply back.

I meant the coaches

[Valmy]

Its soccer.
Who cares?

Have you read the thread?  We barely mention soccer.

[Ideologue]

The same way you can't call a policeman an asshole, but you can call your friends whatever the fuck you like.

In Mississippi, you can call our cops assholes and not be charged. Cause we're regressive that way. Cops are expected to be cursed at in the performance of their duties, and take it like a man.

I bet you say it loud enough and you get slapped with a disorderly conduct charge.

[FunkMonk]

Its soccer.
Who cares?

Have you read the thread?  We barely mention soccer.

It's Israel.
Who cares?