Religious freedom, political correctness, and the culture of outrage

Started by Syt, July 03, 2014, 01:01:13 AM

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MadImmortalMan

Quote from: Siege on July 06, 2014, 10:48:50 AM
Shelf, you are assuming bigotry is an artificial negative trait, while there might be some to the argument that bigotry is a evolutionary self-defense mechanism.

The evolutionary argument also maintain that with the appearance of globalization and the "global village", socio-economical evolution will completely eliminate bigotry within 1 or 2 generations, because now bigotry has become a regressive trait lowering the chances of success for the people that still have this trait.

That was very well put. I'm not just saying that because you're a Jew who drinks bad beer.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Ideologue

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 06, 2014, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: Siege on July 06, 2014, 10:48:50 AM
Shelf, you are assuming bigotry is an artificial negative trait, while there might be some to the argument that bigotry is a evolutionary self-defense mechanism.

The evolutionary argument also maintain that with the appearance of globalization and the "global village", socio-economical evolution will completely eliminate bigotry within 1 or 2 generations, because now bigotry has become a regressive trait lowering the chances of success for the people that still have this trait.

That was very well put. I'm not just saying that because you're a Jew who drinks bad beer.

If it's a legitimate biological trait--not that you can't apply an evolutionary framework to any dynamic system, but it's a very imperfect framework when talking about social progress--then 1 to 2 generations should be like 1000 to 2000 generations.  And since natural selection barely applies to modern humans, it'll never be removed without intervention.

That said, fear of the Other is almost certainly a biological trait.  There just aren't that many Others left and those that are we're told we shouldn't hate, which is possibly one factor as to why we're atomized and sad. :hmm:
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Sheilbh

Quote from: Siege on July 06, 2014, 10:48:50 AM
Shelf, you are assuming bigotry is an artificial negative trait, while there might be some to the argument that bigotry is a evolutionary self-defense mechanism.
I don't know if it's biological or 'artificial' or anything else. I'm not sure that it matters either, what difference does it make in your view?
Let's bomb Russia!

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
That said, fear of the Other is almost certainly a biological trait.

Are there any species in which the newborn demonstrate this fear?  My experience is to the contrary.

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Ideologue

Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
That said, fear of the Other is almost certainly a biological trait.

Are there any species in which the newborn demonstrate this fear?  My experience is to the contrary.

Language and walking are biological traits that newborn don't demonstrate.  What is your point?
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Ideologue

Quote from: The Brain on July 06, 2014, 05:02:02 PM
People who speak of the capital O "Other" make me sick.

Yet we know your inclusiveness knows no bounds.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
That said, fear of the Other is almost certainly a biological trait.

With good reason. Would you trust any of these people?




To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Ideologue

"These people"?  Wow, buddy.

Anyway, I don't really think we need someone to hate to feel complete.  Probably.  Although it would fit well into my "humans are deeply flawed" worldview.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

dps

Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
That said, fear of the Other is almost certainly a biological trait.

Are there any species in which the newborn demonstrate this fear?  My experience is to the contrary.

Language and walking are biological traits that newborn don't demonstrate.  What is your point?

Language is a biological trait?  LOL

The Brain

Quote from: dps on July 06, 2014, 05:33:01 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
That said, fear of the Other is almost certainly a biological trait.

Are there any species in which the newborn demonstrate this fear?  My experience is to the contrary.

Language and walking are biological traits that newborn don't demonstrate.  What is your point?

Language is a biological trait?  LOL

:unsure:
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Viking

Quote from: dps on July 06, 2014, 05:33:01 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 05:17:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
That said, fear of the Other is almost certainly a biological trait.

Are there any species in which the newborn demonstrate this fear?  My experience is to the contrary.

Language and walking are biological traits that newborn don't demonstrate.  What is your point?

Language is a biological trait?  LOL

not as in "english is genetic" or "noam chomsky is right" but rather the ability to speak and the instinct to speak are biological.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Ideologue

I don't know.  Maybe all the creatures of the forest speak to dps, and he's just never mentioned it.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Viking

Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on July 06, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
That said, fear of the Other is almost certainly a biological trait.

Are there any species in which the newborn demonstrate this fear?  My experience is to the contrary.

Well, yes, any species which a new born is expected to by physically fit or hide fear is real. Human newborns are incapable of hiding or running, they are only capable of calling for help. Crying is one of hte manifestations of fear and it brings all human adults within range running, even today.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.