In wake of teen deaths, Israel vows to crush Hamas

[Josephus]

This from my "Jewish girls showing their bods" file

https://www.facebook.com/StillStandingWithIDF

[Viking]

This from my "Jewish girls showing their bods" file

https://www.facebook.com/StillStandingWithIDF

The one with "this tunnel is made in israel" cracked me up...

[Tamas]

I read an analysis (in Hungarian) on why this shit started, which was very convincing to me:

It argues that the changes in Egypt together with the sharpening shia-sunni divide due to Syria has left Hamas in a peculiar position. Out of sponsors and severely weakened, its leaders were close to making a political deal with Fatah.

A sort of big coalition between the two Palestinian factions had to seem like a bad idea for two actors: the hardliners in Hamas, who had nothing to gain from doing a deal with the other side and could in fact be endangered if things went away from the organized crime state they have been running, and either Israel, or their hardliners, for whom the survival of Hamas even as a tooth-lost semi-political organisation had to look like a horrible idea, since they would still nurture their "destroy Israel" views. For Israel the collapse of Hamas is much more advantageous, and had to be in the sights with recent developments.

So as usual, whenever there seemed to be a step taken toward more stability, the forces on both sides who are not interested in that were more than happy to use each others' offered excuses to throw their shit into the fan.

[Syt]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/26/us-mideast-gaza-idUSKBN0GM11320140826



(The pic is on Reuters homepage, not chosen by me )

Gaza ceasefire takes effect as Palestinians celebrate

(Reuters) - A ceasefire agreement between Israel and the Palestinians aimed at ending their seven-week conflict in Gaza went into effect on Tuesday and joyous Palestinians streamed into the streets of the battered enclave to celebrate.

Minutes before the Egyptian-brokered truce began at 1600 GMT (12.00 noon EDT), a rocket fired by Palestinian militants killed one person in an Israeli kibbutz, or collective farm, near the Gaza border, police said.

Palestinian and Egyptian officials said the deal calls for an indefinite halt to hostilities, the immediate opening of Gaza's blockaded crossings with Israel and Egypt and a widening of the territory's fishing zone in the Mediterranean.

A senior official of the Islamist group Hamas, which runs Gaza, voiced willingness for the security forces of Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and the unity government he formed in June to control the passage points.

Both Israel and Egypt view Hamas as a security threat and are seeking guarantees that weapons will not enter the territory of 1.8 million people.

Under a second stage of the truce that would begin a month later, Israel and the Palestinians would discuss the construction of a Gaza sea port and Israel's release of Hamas prisoners in the occupied West Bank, the officials said.

After the ceasefire began, crowds and traffic filled the Gaza streets. Car horns blared and recorded chants praising God sounded from mosque loudspeakers.

"Today we declare the victory of the resistance, today we declare the victory of Gaza," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said.

Israel gave a low-key response to the truce.

A statement issued by a spokesman for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel had accepted the Egyptian proposal for "an open-ended ceasefire" and would attend Cairo talks on Gaza's future only if there was a "total end to terror attacks" from the enclave.

HEAVY TOLL

The conflict has taken a heavy toll in the Gaza Strip. Palestinian health officials say 2,139 people, most of them civilians, including more than 490 children, have been killed in the enclave since July 8, when Israel launched an offensive with the declared aim of ending the rocket salvoes.

Sixty-four Israeli soldiers and five civilians in Israel have been killed.

Thousands of homes in the Gaza Strip have been destroyed or damaged in the most prolonged Israeli-Palestinian fighting since a 2000-2005 Palestinian uprising.

"We have mixed feelings. We are in pain for the losses but we are also proud we fought this war alone and we were not broken," said Gaza teacher Ahmed Awf, 55, as he held his two-year-old son in his arms and joined in the street festivities.

Despite Israeli bombardments from sea and air and an offensive that included a ground invasion, Hamas was able to keep up cross-border rocket salvoes that reached Israel's heartland, the commercial capital Tel Aviv. Many of the rockets were intercepted by the Iron Dome anti-missile system.

The Palestinian Center for Human Rights said 540,000 people had been displaced in the territory. Israel has said Hamas bears responsibility for civilian casualties because it operates among non-combatants. Israel says the group uses schools and mosques to store weapons and as launch sites for rockets.

In the run-up to the ceasefire, Israel increased pressure on militants to end persistent rocket strikes, bombing more of Gaza's tallest structures in attacks that toppled a 13-storey apartment and office tower and destroyed most of a 16-floor residential building.

Israel, which said it was targeting Hamas control and command centers, had warned occupants to leave and no deaths were reported.

[Siege]

I read an analysis (in Hungarian) on why this shit started, which was very convincing to me:

It argues that the changes in Egypt together with the sharpening shia-sunni divide due to Syria has left Hamas in a peculiar position. Out of sponsors and severely weakened, its leaders were close to making a political deal with Fatah.

A sort of big coalition between the two Palestinian factions had to seem like a bad idea for two actors: the hardliners in Hamas, who had nothing to gain from doing a deal with the other side and could in fact be endangered if things went away from the organized crime state they have been running, and either Israel, or their hardliners, for whom the survival of Hamas even as a tooth-lost semi-political organisation had to look like a horrible idea, since they would still nurture their "destroy Israel" views. For Israel the collapse of Hamas is much more advantageous, and had to be in the sights with recent developments.

So as usual, whenever there seemed to be a step taken toward more stability, the forces on both sides who are not interested in that were more than happy to use each others' offered excuses to throw their shit into the fan.

So, basicly it is Israel's fault.
Oh, excuse me, the evil Israeli hardliners.
Never mind the rockets and the mortar rounds.

How is this any diff from all the anti-Semite bullshit all over Europe?

[Siege]

Ah, dang.
I forgot I promised to stay away from Israeli themed threads.

[Razgovory]

I read an analysis (in Hungarian) on why this shit started, which was very convincing to me:

It argues that the changes in Egypt together with the sharpening shia-sunni divide due to Syria has left Hamas in a peculiar position. Out of sponsors and severely weakened, its leaders were close to making a political deal with Fatah.

A sort of big coalition between the two Palestinian factions had to seem like a bad idea for two actors: the hardliners in Hamas, who had nothing to gain from doing a deal with the other side and could in fact be endangered if things went away from the organized crime state they have been running, and either Israel, or their hardliners, for whom the survival of Hamas even as a tooth-lost semi-political organisation had to look like a horrible idea, since they would still nurture their "destroy Israel" views. For Israel the collapse of Hamas is much more advantageous, and had to be in the sights with recent developments.

So as usual, whenever there seemed to be a step taken toward more stability, the forces on both sides who are not interested in that were more than happy to use each others' offered excuses to throw their shit into the fan.

So, basicly it is Israel's fault.
Oh, excuse me, the evil Israeli hardliners.
Never mind the rockets and the mortar rounds.

How is this any diff from all the anti-Semite bullshit all over Europe?

Question:  Did Israel's action in the wake of the murdered teens increase or decrease the number of mortar rounds coming falling on Israel?

[Admiral Yi]

Did Hamas' actions increase or decrease the number of bombs that fell on Gaza?

[Viking]

I read an analysis (in Hungarian) on why this shit started, which was very convincing to me:

It argues that the changes in Egypt together with the sharpening shia-sunni divide due to Syria has left Hamas in a peculiar position. Out of sponsors and severely weakened, its leaders were close to making a political deal with Fatah.

A sort of big coalition between the two Palestinian factions had to seem like a bad idea for two actors: the hardliners in Hamas, who had nothing to gain from doing a deal with the other side and could in fact be endangered if things went away from the organized crime state they have been running, and either Israel, or their hardliners, for whom the survival of Hamas even as a tooth-lost semi-political organisation had to look like a horrible idea, since they would still nurture their "destroy Israel" views. For Israel the collapse of Hamas is much more advantageous, and had to be in the sights with recent developments.

So as usual, whenever there seemed to be a step taken toward more stability, the forces on both sides who are not interested in that were more than happy to use each others' offered excuses to throw their shit into the fan.

So, basicly it is Israel's fault.
Oh, excuse me, the evil Israeli hardliners.
Never mind the rockets and the mortar rounds.

How is this any diff from all the anti-Semite bullshit all over Europe?

Question:  Did Israel's action in the wake of the murdered teens increase or decrease the number of mortar rounds coming falling on Israel?

Given the nebulous nature of Palestinian politics, we can't tell. However. Operating on the assumption that one reason for rocket fire is to demonstrate strength when being shown to be impotent then yes. Israel did use the manhunt and the highly unlikely prospect of rescue to go and arrest as many of the people released in the Kerry round of talks as possible. Mainly HAMAS men. Raiding any HAMAS activity detected since the last time they raided the west bank. HAMAS knew it was being targetted. Palestinian society knew it was being targetted. It had to do something to maintain the illusion of strength that keeps it in power.

Israels steadfast refusal to make peace unless HAMAS cries uncle and gives up without getting any concession has been making HAMAS more desperate. Hene the murder of so-called collaborators. Likely they were people expressing their opposition to HAMAS and their foolish policies.

The latest cease fire is basically a null cease fire where all of HAMAS' demands will be brought up after Israel get's it's quiet. At which point Israel is free to say screw you.

[Razgovory]

Did Hamas' actions increase or decrease the number of bombs that fell on Gaza?

I don't think Hamas cares about that.

[Berkut]

Did Hamas' actions increase or decrease the number of bombs that fell on Gaza?

I don't think Hamas cares about that.

They certainly do care.

[Maximus]

Did Hamas' actions increase or decrease the number of bombs that fell on Gaza?

I don't think Hamas cares about that.

They certainly do care.

Right. They need those bombs, otherwise they become irrelevant.

[Razgovory]

Did Hamas' actions increase or decrease the number of bombs that fell on Gaza?

I don't think Hamas cares about that.

They certainly do care.

If they do care it's not the same way as the Israelis do.  Hamas would sacrifice half of Gaza if it meant destroying Israel.  If the recent operation was to protect Israeli lives, I'm not sure it was a big success.  Two dozen Israelis died in this last skirmish.  Hamas will dig more tunnels and get more rockets.  Any attempt to to deprive the enemy of these is temporary and possibly illusionary.  If the action was revenge I think it may have been misplaced since the perpetrators of the kidnapping and murders were not Hamas high command.

I sympathize with Israel here, but there's not a lot that can be done.  I suspect that this will continue until either the Palestinians get tired of this bullshit and actually want peace, or one these Palestinian groups goes to far and does something really stupid like firing a rocket with nerve gas in it.

[The Brain]

Glass it.

[Siege]

Did Hamas' actions increase or decrease the number of bombs that fell on Gaza?

I don't think Hamas cares about that.

They certainly do care.

If they do care it's not the same way as the Israelis do.  Hamas would sacrifice half of Gaza if it meant destroying Israel.  If the recent operation was to protect Israeli lives, I'm not sure it was a big success.  Two dozen Israelis died in this last skirmish.  Hamas will dig more tunnels and get more rockets.  Any attempt to to deprive the enemy of these is temporary and possibly illusionary.  If the action was revenge I think it may have been misplaced since the perpetrators of the kidnapping and murders were not Hamas high command.

I sympathize with Israel here, but there's not a lot that can be done.  I suspect that this will continue until either the Palestinians get tired of this bullshit and actually want peace, or one these Palestinian groups goes to far and does something really stupid like firing a rocket with nerve gas in it.

Dude, listen. The war with the pals will never end because Israel does not have the political will to expel their asses back to Egypt and Jordan. Therefore, the best bet for the Israel is to reduce the pals, in this case Hamas, as much possible, and then wait until they recuperate as they always do, and another round begins.
Best course of action for Israel would have been to completely reoccupy Gaza, eliminate all the bad guys whose activities have been carefully monitored and recorded by mil intel, then act on as much humint as they can buy from the locals, and then withdraw after making sure Hamas got not infrastructure left.
And so until the next cycle.