Iraq Intervention Poll

[DGuller]

It's difficult to overstate how little appetite our country has for any do-gooding right now.  We tried pretty hard to right Iraq and Afghanistan, spending a couple trillion bucks to do it, and it's obviously failed.  Now we're currently in the midst of an ongoing economic collapse.  Why should we try again?  I'm surprised anyone is for an actual ground deployment of major forces.  Thinking on it, I would change my vote to an affirmative "don't spend another dime" stance.

Yeah, it's a little bewildering how bad of a mistake our long interventions have been.  We can blame Bush and company, but really, at the end of the day, a lot of Americans believed that pounding the shit out of very bad guys, and building better nations was a good idea.  The end result was thousands of American lives and a couple of trillions squandered, just to make the situation potentially much worse than what we started with. 

We'll recover from this mistake, and our authoritarian enemies like Putin shouldn't gloat too much.  The authoritarian nature of their societies means that they squander their wealth continuously, rather than in notable misadventures like we did.  However, it's still painful to shoot yourself in a foot like this.

[The Brain]

However, it's still painful to shoot yourself in a foot like this.

OK Dorsey.

[alfred russel]

At this point: no blood for oil.

At this point it seems a lot like Vietnam. It is extremely difficult, maybe impossible, to win, so we walk away. But it is probably much easier to avoid losing.

Post 1993 (or whenever it was) the long game strategy of nominal involvement in Somalia seems to be working. We go in, pick off a few bad guys, the country stays in chaos, but the bad guys don't win. If they get close to winning, Ethiopia or the African Union steps in and pushes them back. Maybe that isn't the best analogy because Africans have had more than a nominal ground commitment, but we could probably get the same results with a lot less effort (or less attractively, Iran seems ripe for the role of Ethiopia). Applied over a couple decades, the situation in Somalia seems to be improving.

[The Brain]

At this point: no blood for oil.

At this point it seems a lot like Vietnam. It is extremely difficult, maybe impossible, to win, so we walk away. But it is probably much easier to avoid losing.

Post 1993 (or whenever it was) the long game strategy of nominal involvement in Somalia seems to be working. We go in, pick off a few bad guys, the country stays in chaos, but the bad guys don't win. If they get close to winning, Ethiopia or the African Union steps in and pushes them back. Maybe that isn't the best analogy because Africans have had more than a nominal ground commitment, but we could probably get the same results with a lot less effort (or less attractively, Iran seems ripe for the role of Ethiopia). Applied over a couple decades, the situation in Somalia seems to be improving.

Will Iraq have ninjas instead of pirates?

[alfred russel]

Will Iraq have ninjas instead of pirates?

It will just be a super poor and incredibly violent place, filled with goofballs.

[MadImmortalMan]

It occurs to me that ISIS needed to have a free hand all this time in order to get this far. I wasn't aware the Allies had stopped all air strikes and everything, even sans ground troops, but they must have for it to have gotten to this point. Drones and Tomahawks might be a good idea at the least.

[The Brain]

It occurs to me that ISIS needed to have a free hand all this time in order to get this far. I wasn't aware the Allies had stopped all air strikes and everything, even sans ground troops, but they must have for it to have gotten to this point. Drones and Tomahawks might be a good idea at the least.

Iranian human waves sound cheaper than Tomahawks.

[Eddie Teach]

It occurs to me that ISIS needed to have a free hand all this time in order to get this far. I wasn't aware the Allies had stopped all air strikes and everything, even sans ground troops, but they must have for it to have gotten to this point. Drones and Tomahawks might be a good idea at the least.

Iranian human waves sound cheaper than Tomahawks.

You think Iranians don't have missiles of their own?

[The Brain]

It occurs to me that ISIS needed to have a free hand all this time in order to get this far. I wasn't aware the Allies had stopped all air strikes and everything, even sans ground troops, but they must have for it to have gotten to this point. Drones and Tomahawks might be a good idea at the least.

Iranian human waves sound cheaper than Tomahawks.

You think Iranians don't have missiles of their own?

Human wave missiles?

[sbr]

Firing Iranians out of cannons into mobs of Iraqis?  #winwin

[Sheilbh]

This is like the Iran-Iraq war of....Oh.

[OttoVonBismarck]

No intervention by the United States. This is essentially the same Iraqi government (largely due to its Iranian ties)  that refused to sign the BSA with us that both Bush and Obama wanted. They made that decision, let them live with the consequences. Good for us too, I don't want us involved here, but if we had a BSA we'd have an obligation.

[Razgovory]

I do note from the voting that us YOOROS are more free spending with american blood and treasure.... embarrassing, yes, but noted

Yeah, I'm actually surprised by this.   I would like for the US to continue to support the Peshmerga.

[Sheilbh]

No intervention by the United States. This is essentially the same Iraqi government (largely due to its Iranian ties)  that refused to sign the BSA with us that both Bush and Obama wanted. They made that decision, let them live with the consequences. Good for us too, I don't want us involved here, but if we had a BSA we'd have an obligation.

Yep. Maliki chose to tie his security to Iran not the US precisely because it'd be easier to build a sectarian Shia state.

Before there was intervention for the Iraqis I think he would have to resign and there'd need to be serious concessions to the Sunni (and Kurds) who have legitimate grievances.

If there was intervention for Iran then again, I'd want to see what they were offering first.

[CountDeMoney]

You know precisely what Iran would want to bring to the table:  they'll want to leverage bullshit over their nuclear program, buying time and accomodation--and that is not a bargaining chip, IMHO.