Another US school shooter - Portland, this time

[sbr]

If you or I make a mistake on the job we get a stern talking to.

When cops make a mistake - they deserve to die?!?

That's why you double-check the address.  You bust into my house with guns drawn, I may not have enough time to figure out what is going on before I start shooting.  Particularly if you do a shitty job announcing yourself.

derfetus is hardcore.
Ok you are taking this too far.  You seriously would start shooting if a whole squad of dudes burst into your house with their guns out?  Are you that eager to orphan your children?  I mean there is self defense and there is suicide.

[derspiess]

I'm curious what your average American citizen would do if it came about that some guns were going to be seized.  Not all of them, but for example just say your AR-15 style weapons.  I imagine most people would turn them in (probably in exchange for cash value or some kind of compensation) but I'm sure you would have the militia types refusing to give them up leading to arrests and shootouts but I'd guess that would be the extreme minority.  You'd have the outcry and the complaints but overall I think it would go smoothly.

It'd be a pretty fucked up situation for that to happen.  Hard to think of the 2nd Amendment getting overturned in the first place.

[CountDeMoney]

Hard to think of the 2nd Amendment getting overturned in the first place.

And yet, there's been a run on ammo and firearms ever since Obama took office and after Sandy Hook.  Because gun nutters are so rational.

[derspiess]

If you believe you're subject to an "unlawful intrusion", then you're provided a legally sanctioned course of action.  Unfortunately, that leaves the yahoo-in-question to determine at that moment what is an "unlawful intrusion";  now, whether or not ZOMG THIS PIG IS UNLAWFULLY INTRUDING UPON MAH STATION WAGON is determined to be a valid defense later is kinda useless if the yahoo-in-question believes that shooting first is OK in the first place.  So much for that whole courts thing.

They later amended "law enforcement official" in the law to the more loosely defined "public servant" instead, so it's open season on the local zoning assessor knocking on your front door as well.

You'd have been a great asset to the country in 1776.  OMG LETS TAKE KING GEORGE TO COURT

[derspiess]

Hard to think of the 2nd Amendment getting overturned in the first place.

And yet, there's been a run on ammo and firearms ever since Obama took office and after Sandy Hook.  Because gun nutters are so rational.

Well, yeah.  I have profited from the panic.

[CountDeMoney]

You'd have been a great asset to the country in 1776.  OMG LETS TAKE KING GEORGE TO COURT

I would've edited the shit out of a certain grammatically incorrect comma splice in 1791, that's for sure. 

[derspiess]

Yeah, but apparently you'd have been in Ireland or Germany.

[CountDeMoney]

Great, now you're going all retroactive anti-immigration reform on us.  You're in a Teabagger time-space continuum. 

[derspiess]

I believe I've made my opinions known on The Irish.

[CountDeMoney]

You leave Lou Holtz out of this.

[Barrister]

If you or I make a mistake on the job we get a stern talking to.

When cops make a mistake - they deserve to die?!?

That's why you double-check the address.  You bust into my house with guns drawn, I may not have enough time to figure out what is going on before I start shooting.  Particularly if you do a shitty job announcing yourself.

I repeat: when cops make a mistake - they deserve to die?!?!?

Police make even 'energetic' entrances wearing very clear "POLICE" markings, and very loudly announce themselves.  Even if you think they have no right to enter into your house, and even if a court subsequently decides that you're right, YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING SHOOT AT COPS.

[11B4V]

If you or I make a mistake on the job we get a stern talking to.

When cops make a mistake - they deserve to die?!?

That's why you double-check the address.  You bust into my house with guns drawn, I may not have enough time to figure out what is going on before I start shooting.  Particularly if you do a shitty job announcing yourself.

I repeat: when cops make a mistake - they deserve to die?!?!?

Police make even 'energetic' entrances wearing very clear "POLICE" markings, and very loudly announce themselves.  Even if you think they have no right to enter into your house, and even if a court subsequently decides that you're right, YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING SHOOT AT COPS.

Generally not thought of as a healthy course of action.

[Monoriu]

I am approaching a point where my reaction to these shootings is just "oh, another one?" It is quite clear that unless sane gun control laws are enacted, these are bound to happen continuously.  I can only hope that enough people will change their minds to make it happen. 

[Syt]

I believe that there's a middle ground between "I have the right to carry a gun anytime, anywhere, and to use deadly force if I feel threatened in any way" and "no one should own a gun, ever."

(Actually, didn't post-colonial and wild west towns have much stricter rules about guns? E.g. having to keep your weapon in an arsenal or turning in your guns when you enter town?)

A lot of people seem to think that they need the protection, because they don't trust the state to protect them if need be (and I'm not talking about fringe nutjobs who arm themselves to ward off a Bushitler or Obamadolf rising and proclaiming the American Commie-Nazi Dictatorship).

Is there anything that can be done so that the average guy doesn't feel the need to have a gun and thus paving the way to sensible gun control?

[Ideologue]

If you or I make a mistake on the job we get a stern talking to.

When cops make a mistake - they deserve to die?!?

That's why you double-check the address.  You bust into my house with guns drawn, I may not have enough time to figure out what is going on before I start shooting.  Particularly if you do a shitty job announcing yourself.

I repeat: when cops make a mistake - they deserve to die?!?!?

Police make even 'energetic' entrances wearing very clear "POLICE" markings, and very loudly announce themselves.  Even if you think they have no right to enter into your house, and even if a court subsequently decides that you're right, YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING SHOOT AT COPS.

The question isn't whether someone deserves to die (even ordinary applications of the Castle Doctrine do not seek to value or devalue human life) but whether someone deserves to be punishment when and if someone does die.

SC's law provides a presumption of an apprehension of immediate grave bodily harm in the case of a home intrusion.  Is that really so ridiculous?  And is it impossible to imagine a situation where this apprehension would accrue to a botched police breach?