The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant Megathread

[Martinus]

The difference is that Christianity has had a strong organization, the Church, to keep such loons on the fringe.

Not anymore though. Besides the discussion was about belief systems.

[grumbler]

The difference is that Christianity has had a strong organization, the Church, to keep such loons on the fringe.

  How does "the Church" keep the Klu Klux Klan on the fringe?  Aren't there dozens, and maybe hundreds, of Christian "the Church"es?

[garbon]

Robert Spencer doesn't seem like the kind of person that anyone should ever be listening to.

Director of Jihad Watch? Ah, cool - I bet you have an unbiased view of Islam.

[Solmyr]

I'm speaking historically. The Catholic Church was strong enough and integrated enough in European politics that it was able to keep radicals down. Let's face it, if the Cathars won, it would be much worse for everybody. And Marty, belief systems do indeed have a tendency to radicalize if there isn't a central organization to control them. In Islam there mostly hasn't been, though there are some similar localized examples such as the Ottoman Caliphate. And yes Viking, in places where there is no central strong church to unite the religious, such as the US, radical groups appear much more frequently. Really, the US conservatives and Arab islamists would be best friends if they had the same religion.

[CountDeMoney]

Really, the US conservatives and Arab islamists would be best friends if they had the same religion.

Too true.  If only synagogues provided abortion services, that's two birds with one bomb. ONE LOVE

[Syt]

If only synagogues provided abortion services

"Prenatal circumcision"

[Warspite]

I happen to be of the view that it is generally the case that such people look for line and verse to justify their brutality, rather than are radicalised by it. It is a depressing fact of human existence that such grotesque atrocities are common to conflicts across geography and history. I don't think distinguishing mass graves justified by a book and mass graves not justified by a book is particularly useful in the scheme of things.

[garbon]

I happen to be of the view that it is generally the case that such people look for line and verse to justify their brutality, rather than are radicalised by it.

[Martinus]

Great, thanks to viking posting an article about "sex slaves", my work filter is blocking the page. Does anyone know how to change the number of posts displayed per page? It used to be in account settings,

[Tamas]

I happen to be of the view that it is generally the case that such people look for line and verse to justify their brutality, rather than are radicalised by it.

[Eddie Teach]

i don't see much difference between christianity and islam, or atheism for that matter.

You've got to be kidding me. 

He's not the sharpest tool in the shed.  Maybe he is incapable of telling the difference between religion and lack of it.

Pretty sure his point is that Christians, Muslims and Atheists alike are willing to kill people they disagree with. Which is true to an extent, though it downplays the extent to which that struggle is at the core of Islamic theology.

[Valmy]

Yes, the Mexicans right south of you.

Wow I thought they mostly used guns.  Disturbing thanks for educating me a bit.

A good number of these killings takes place right next to the Texan border, btw.

Um well...duh.  That is the hot zone.

[Barrister]

I am not sure I fully agree with Viking - I want to, but similar passages can also be found in the Bible - and I am not a sufficiently expert theologian to say if there is a difference between the two books in this respect. Plus there are even in Christianity those, called dominationists, (fortunately most of them are fringe and scarce loons) who say the law should be based on the Mosaic law. Same goes for Judaism adherents.

So my question is - is the difference between Islamists on one hand and dominationist Christians and ultra-Orthodox Jews really qualitative or is it purely quantitative (i.e. with sufficient numbers of the dominationist Christians for example we could have a Christian version of ISIS the kind Malthus's aunt wrote about)?

Thereis no quote in the Bible that ever suggests non-believers should be killed.

[garbon]

I am not sure I fully agree with Viking - I want to, but similar passages can also be found in the Bible - and I am not a sufficiently expert theologian to say if there is a difference between the two books in this respect. Plus there are even in Christianity those, called dominationists, (fortunately most of them are fringe and scarce loons) who say the law should be based on the Mosaic law. Same goes for Judaism adherents.

So my question is - is the difference between Islamists on one hand and dominationist Christians and ultra-Orthodox Jews really qualitative or is it purely quantitative (i.e. with sufficient numbers of the dominationist Christians for example we could have a Christian version of ISIS the kind Malthus's aunt wrote about)?

Thereis no quote in the Bible that ever suggests non-believers should be killed.

Are we defining bible as NT only?

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people.  The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel."  So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. (Numbers 25:1-9)

[The Minsky Moment]

Amalekites.
God condemns Saul for leaving the cattle alive.  But Saul was obedient enough to slaughter all the woman and children, as commanded.