UN rights council gets cold shoulder from Ottawa

Started by Ancient Demon, June 09, 2009, 08:26:40 PM

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Berkut

#15
June 10, 2009, 09:58:26 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2009, 09:57:08 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 10, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
Canada is the Ottoman Empire of our time.

The sick man of North America?

I was thinking about the Armenians.

Actually, I wasn't really thinking at all. I need moar coffee.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Barrister

#16
June 10, 2009, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2009, 09:54:41 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on June 10, 2009, 09:50:00 AM
it's a process. those pesky people are always claiming more and more rights.

But that is not a right, that is being entitled to be given things at others expense.

A free public education is a great thing and in every country's own interests to provide but it is hardly some sort of human right.  It is, after all, not free and requires the consent of the people to vote in funding for it (or a decision by whoever is calling the shots in a non-democratic system).  If they decide not to vote funding that is hardly equivalent to taking away somebody's rights.  They had no right to other's money.

It's a right if everyone agrees its a right.  There's no universal, unalterable definition of what is a human right and what isn't.  I think if you ask most western citizens they's say that free primary education is a human right.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

#17
June 10, 2009, 10:57:31 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2009, 10:52:26 AM
I think if you ask most western citizens they's say that free primary education is a human right.

It just shows if you provide something to people for free they come to see it as their due rather than a gift from society.  Disgusting.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

#18
June 10, 2009, 11:04:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2009, 10:57:31 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2009, 10:52:26 AM
I think if you ask most western citizens they's say that free primary education is a human right.

It just shows if you provide something to people for free they come to see it as their due rather than a gift from society.  Disgusting.

Absolutely Rush.  Ditto.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Berkut

#19
June 10, 2009, 11:09:30 AM
I am just glad it is now no longer just the US in the West ignoring the human rights concerns raised by international organizations.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Barrister

#20
June 10, 2009, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 10, 2009, 11:09:30 AM
I am just glad it is now no longer just the US in the West ignoring the human rights concerns raised by international organizations.

In Canada it's a combination of the Conservative government and a general scepticism over the Aboriginal Peoples treay (where the only holdouts are - surprise! - the countries with significant aboriginal populations).
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Malthus

#21
June 10, 2009, 11:19:49 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2009, 10:52:26 AM
It's a right if everyone agrees its a right.  There's no universal, unalterable definition of what is a human right and what isn't.  I think if you ask most western citizens they's say that free primary education is a human right.

The problem with this approach is that it leaves no room to criticize countries which hang gays and torture dissidents. Sure, they are violating "rights", but what is a "right" anyway? Could be anything.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

garbon

#22
June 10, 2009, 11:26:07 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 10, 2009, 11:19:49 AM
Sure, they are violating "rights", but what is a "right" anyway? Could be anything.

I've a right to high priced fashion.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Grallon

#23
June 10, 2009, 11:29:02 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 10, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
Canada is the Ottoman Empire of our time.


May it disintegrate! :pope:




G.
"Clearly, a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself."

~Jean-François Revel

saskganesh

#24
June 10, 2009, 11:30:29 AM
Quote from: Grallon on June 10, 2009, 11:29:02 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 10, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
Canada is the Ottoman Empire of our time.


May it disintegrate! :pope:


G.

of course, this means that Montreal will be occupied by the Russians. I don't know if you want  that.
humans were created in their own image

saskganesh

#25
June 10, 2009, 11:34:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2009, 10:57:31 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2009, 10:52:26 AM
I think if you ask most western citizens they's say that free primary education is a human right.

It just shows if you provide something to people for free they come to see it as their due rather than a gift from society.  Disgusting.

the idea behind these new "rights" is to make support for "political rights" meaningful. in other words, liberty is great, but if you are hungry, cold, stupid and diseased in an otherwise free society, liberty isn't that useful.
humans were created in their own image

Valmy

#26
June 10, 2009, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on June 10, 2009, 11:34:33 AM
the idea behind these new "rights" is to make support for "political rights" meaningful. in other words, liberty is great, but if you are hungry, cold, stupid and diseased in an otherwise free society, liberty isn't that useful.

That is true.

What does that have to do with anything?  Is liberty and freedom and rights supposed to be the cure all solution for every single problem?  Liberty doesn't feed people, make them smart, nor does it cure disease.  It also is unlikely to turn shit into gold, water into wine, or explain the meaning of life.  They are just that: human rights not 'the secret of human happiness and prosperity'.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

BuddhaRhubarb

#27
June 10, 2009, 11:37:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2009, 10:57:31 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 10, 2009, 10:52:26 AM
I think if you ask most western citizens they's say that free primary education is a human right.

It just shows if you provide something to people for free they come to see it as their due rather than a gift from society.  Disgusting.

How is something that is paid for with tax dollars "free" In Canada if you pay taxes, you are helping to pay for education, health care, and crappy helicopters we don't need, oh and the Olympics (Coz lord knows they don't have any money to pay for their own stupid games :rolleyes: ) or raises in politician's salaries.


:p

Valmy

#28
June 10, 2009, 11:40:01 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on June 10, 2009, 11:37:54 AM
How is something that is paid for with tax dollars "free" In Canada if you pay taxes, you are helping to pay for education, health care, and crappy helicopters we don't need, oh and the Olympics (Coz lord knows they don't have any money to pay for their own stupid games :rolleyes: ) or raises in politician's salaries.

Well it isn't really free.  That was sort of my whole point.  You are taking money from people to provide it and it is a good and noble thing as well as in the best interests of a society to do so.

But getting that is a great boon not a human right, sort of like health care or unemployment welfare or pensions or anything else.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

BuddhaRhubarb

#29
June 10, 2009, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 10, 2009, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on June 10, 2009, 11:34:33 AM
the idea behind these new "rights" is to make support for "political rights" meaningful. in other words, liberty is great, but if you are hungry, cold, stupid and diseased in an otherwise free society, liberty isn't that useful.

That is true.

What does that have to do with anything?  Is liberty and freedom and rights supposed to be the cure all solution for every single problem?  Liberty doesn't feed people, make them smart, nor does it cure disease.  It also is unlikely to turn shit into gold, water into wine, or explain the meaning of life.  They are just that: human rights not 'the secret of human happiness and prosperity'.

No but it DOES make those things easier to work towards. If you are too scared of warlords coming to your house to rape your children after cutting your arms off because you are vaguely different from the people doing the pillaging, you might not be so motivated to job hunt, buy nice things.
:p
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