Elections!

[Duque de Bragança]

And finally from Art Goldhammer's blog he mentioned a line that in France the far left struggles against the FN because they're seen as the parties of people who are already 'protected' from globalisation - like public sector workers. Which is an interesting thought. It reminds me of what a Tory said over the Labour result in London v the rest of the country: they're no longer the party of the working class, but of the public sector manager.

The whole left is perceived this way actually.

[alfred russel]

Holy shit.  I hope this is normal bizarre Euro Parliament voting.

This is the version of bizarre Euro Parliament voting where the Front National wins the election.

FirebladeLePen must be estatic.

[Duque de Bragança]

Holy shit.  I hope this is normal bizarre Euro Parliament voting.

This is the version of bizarre Euro Parliament voting where the Front National wins the election.

FirebladeLePen must be estatic.

Somebody pointed out on ARTE that back in 1979, the French Communist party who was as europhobic AND as anti-immigration as the FN also won 19 seats. The RPR, eurosceptic, had 15 so this anti-EU vote is not exactly new. Back then, Soviet propaganda described the EEC as a mere appendage of US imperialism.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lections_europ%C3%A9ennes_de_1979_en_France

[Sheilbh]

I'm surprised 'Yesterday's man'*is still around, maybe he thinks he deserves another kicking from someone else before he retires?





* LibDem 'leader' Nick Clegg.

He's very lucky. The Lib Dems for all their cuddly self-image are brutal (especially in local and European elections) and have a record of regicides. They're a very vicious bunch.

My theory is they know that Clegg won't go quietly so he'll cause a lot of damage fighting to hold onto the leadership and they know that there'll be an almighty fight for the leadership (probably Jeremy Browne v Clegg, no?) between the left and continuity Cleggites. And some people (Tim Farron) have an interest in seeing Clegg carry on because their opportunity to run for the leadership will be after the election. If any of those change - either if he decides he'd go willingly or if they decide to crown a leader until the General Election - then Clegg's gone.

This is the version of bizarre Euro Parliament voting where the Front National wins the election.

Not like real Presidential elections where the FN get into the run-off and Marine Le Pen's currently leading the polls (so, again, in the run-off).

As for the current danger to French Jews, the current Prime minister declared he was eternally linked to Israel (kind of clumsy even on election time he's supposed to be French first and foremost), so colour me sceptical.
The ones who do the violent antisemitism in Western Europe are muslim e.g Merah whose sister tried to join the jihad in Syria earlier this week. Incidentally, Le Pen père trolls against them as well as against the third world in general (Mgr Ebola was the latest troll).

There was a poll of French Jewry recently which said that 75% were considering emigrating. The largest number because they were worried about anti-Semitism. And I've seen a number of polls saying the Jewish community as a whole is very worried about the rise in anti-Semitism. As I say until recently 2013 was the record year of Jews moving from France to Israel, 2014 is already set to smash that record.

I don't think it's about 'danger' I think it's about whether are Jews welcome and comfortable in parts of Europe and I think increasingly, especially in France, they're not.

In part there's absolutely a rise in anti-Semitic attacks/vandalism which does seem to come more from young Muslim men, though not always, I remember the story of a 50-something white, non-Muslim Frenchman who assaulted a Jewish woman and her daughter shouting about 'dirty Jewesses'. Similarly, as I say, the rise of the FN does give legitimate fears to Jews in France. Similarly, obviously they're an extreme minority, but it must be somewhat grim for French Jews to see demonstrations like this on the streets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxsldW-B2m0

And then there's areas of Europe's anti-Islam feeling that just so happen to make the Jews also feel unwelcome - the banning of Halal and Kosher or ceremonial male circumcision. The Jewish community isn't the target, Muslims are, but the sensitivities of Jews are insufficient to give Europe pause.

As I say there's no doubt European Muslims are part of the problem, but I think just blaming is woefully insufficient. This is a growing problem in Europe and the answer isn't the old European problem of blaming a foreign-looking minority.

Somebody pointed out on ARTE that back in 1979, the French Communist party who was as europhobic AND as anti-immigration as the FN also won 19 seats. The RPR, eurosceptic, had 15 so this anti-EU vote is not exactly new. Back then, Soviet propaganda described the EEC as a mere appendage of US imperialism.

In the UK there's always been a strong anti-EU group within Labour. People forget but in the 70s and the 80s it was Labour that had huge internal rows and splits over Europe. To the very end Tony Benn opposed any moves into Europe as destroying Parliamentary sovereignty and, as he put it, the umbilical cord between the people and lawmakers. For New Labour and Tony Blair pro-Europeanism was a bit part of the modernisation of Labour. See the start of this retrospective of British debates on Europe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT5Bzbi0l90

BBC has maps (they're not as good as the ones they had during the election ) of the different parties votes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27576104

I think Timothy Garton Ash is right (as he often is) on why Juncker is wrong to lead the Commission and it's not just business as usual, also perceptive on difficulty of fixing European unhappiness:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/26/europe-unhappy-european-union

Simon Hix, an expert on the European parliament, has identified three main schools of unhappiness: north Europeans outside the eurozone (Brits, Danes), north Europeans inside the eurozone (the kind of Germans who secured several seats for the anti-euro party Alternative für Deutschland) and south Europeans inside the eurozone (Greeks, Portuguese).

That leaves the east Europeans, many of whom are unhappy in their own ways. The fact that the Unhappy come at the problem from such different angles makes it harder to address. The Syriza voter's dream for eurozone policy is the Alternative für Deutschland voter's nightmare.

[Valmy]

Back then, Soviet propaganda described the EEC as a mere appendage of US imperialism.

Whereas now Russian propaganda describes the EU as a mere appendage of US imperialism.  Man how times changes.

[derspiess]

Back then, Soviet propaganda described the EEC as a mere appendage of US imperialism.

Whereas now Russian propaganda describes the EU as a mere appendage of US imperialism.  Man how times changes.

I think it demonizes the EU more directly nowadays.

[derspiess]

Finally saw Miliband for the first time on that horrific History Channel documentary.  Dude has a nice thinly cropped jewfro.

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally Hungarian politics does look ever more Russian. From Jobbik with the words 'you choose!':

[derspiess]

   I'd mos def vote the one on the right.  No question.

[Tamas]

According to the BBC 30% of young voters in France voted FN

Again far-right picking up votes in old Socialist areas

Is it any wonder France's Jews are looking to leave France

Jews under Marine Le Pen's FN are not in danger. Le Pen père would troll antisemitically, and that would be all.
As for leaving, some French Jews leave and since Hebrew is a tough language (the'y're French so Anglos excepted they're the worst at languages) they come back.

"they are just trolling" has been the common excuse for dangerous racists since at least a hundred years. It is totally wrong. Even IF the leaders are trolling, a portion of their fanbase aren't. And that is the part of the supporter base with the most conviction, drive, and agression. They are bound to take effective control of a government dominated by their party, exactly for the same reason "trolling" antisemitism is a-ok: because the rest of the supporters are at the very least willing to turn a blind eye toward their antisemitism/racism, otherwise they would not vote on the party.

You should have read the whole post. Marine Le Pen does not troll antisemitically and is quick to point out the difference with her father; père = father. Besides, Cukierman, the head of the most vocal Jewish community organisation (CRIF) actually said to Haaretz than more votes for Le Pen would  probably lower muslim anti-semitism and anti-zionism before claiming he was quoted out of context.
http://www.liberation.fr/evenement/2002/04/23/le-president-du-crif-derape-sur-le-vote-fn_401302. Le Pen likes to troll before election to garner more votes, it also helps the left which can mobilize against the "fascist" threat. Only worked partially this time.
As for the current danger to French Jews, the current Prime minister declared he was eternally linked to Israel (kind of clumsy even on election time he's supposed to be French first and foremost), so colour me sceptical.
The ones who do the violent antisemitism in Western Europe are muslim e.g Merah whose sister tried to join the jihad in Syria earlier this week. Incidentally, Le Pen père trolls against them as well as against the third world in general (Mgr Ebola was the latest troll).

You kind of ignored my entire post. My entire point was that "trolling during elections to garner votes" while perfectly ok for you apparently, is actually very dangerous because it makes anti-Semitism and racism acceptable. I mean, just look at what you are writing: "well she does spur hate at given groups of French citizens at times, but doesn't matter, she is doing it to increase her influence!"

[Duque de Bragança]

You kind of ignored my entire post. My entire point was that "trolling during elections to garner votes" while perfectly ok for you apparently, is actually very dangerous because it makes anti-Semitism and racism acceptable. I mean, just look at what you are writing: "well she does spur hate at given groups of French citizens at times, but doesn't matter, she is doing it to increase her influence!"

Start by reading mine. I said helped both the FN AND the left (so-called anti-racists) to mobilise for elections. The anti-racist mobilisation helped the PS on elections to deflect attacks on their poor economic record,  something you as a libertarian should take into account. This is the archetypal smokescreen of the French left. That trolling helped the PS for years, it's not working anymore. The FN has always been used by the PS to weaken the right-wing. It worked but the PS was also weakened since no workers vote them anymore. Politically, I always thought publicising these Le Pen trolls was mistake for the above mentioned reasons.
Btw, Marine Le Pen does not troll, you write she, I mentioned Le Pen father = he. Read before putting words into my mouth.
The latest Le Pen troll (FATHER) was against the Third world and not some group of French citizens.
As for the Jews, some of them vote for Le Pen, mainly the Pied-Noirs (former French settlers in Algeria) as well as some muslims, the former French Army auxiliaries in Algeria (harkis) which were abandoned in large numbers by. For the antisemitic young muslim of the banlieue, harki is the only insult worse than Jew and if being Jewish is risky, then it's even riskier to be harki or son of harkis.
The OAS, matrix of the FN accepted Jews, even Muslims as long as they were pro-French Algeria die-hards and willing to go for full terrorism and gangsterism, against the French Army as well.

Marine Le Pen's FN is not Jobbik so stop projecting your Hungarian Weltanschaaung on a situation you don't know or understand, due to a partial reading of English sources and a non-existant reading of French sources.

Jean-Marie's latest troll
http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le-scan/couacs/2014/05/21/25005-20140521ARTFIG00054-monseigneur-ebola-la-solution-de-jean-marie-le-pen-face-a-l-immigration.php

Ebola as a solution to (excessive) third world immigration.

[Tamas]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck

[Duque de Bragança]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck

You mean like UKIP = FN = Jobbik ?

[Tamas]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck

You mean like UKIP = FN = Jobbik ?

Yes.

[Duque de Bragança]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck

You mean like UKIP = FN = Jobbik ?

Yes.

Well, at least you're consistent. I disagree obviously though I think UKIP and FN are closer than they want to admit. Thing is, I can see a positive role for the UKIP, in a useful idiot way i.e getting rid of the  obstructionist Brits, whereas I don't see such a positive for the FN. Asking good questions at best about immigration (without providing few serious answers of course) when the left made any discussion of immigration taboo has been done and their economic platform is hardly consistent. They are consistently anti-EU.