News from Iran? Good? Bad? Who knows?

[jimmy olsen]

Man, what I wouldn't give to be manning a machine gun nest at one of those protests. .

How brave of you?

[grumbler]

I don't think Iran will turn into a democracy even if the protesters win.  Do they want to change the system or do they want to change who is in charge?  Somehow I think it is the latter.

What they want is to join the modern Western world.  They already know that they belong, but also know that their government, for its own reasons, is keeping them isolated.

The vast majority of the Iranian youth (who make up 60% of the population) are not particularly religious at all.  They are using religious symbols in this protest movement to avoid the charge that they are the unIslamic ones.

So, yes, if they win Iran will at least be placed on the road to full democracy, even if they have to accept some interim quasi-Supreme Leadership in the transition.

[Jaron]

Man, what I wouldn't give to be manning a machine gun nest at one of those protests. .

How brave of you?

More brave than you are, basement warrior.

[citizen k]

I've read blogs of Iranian Atheists who run out into the streets screaming Allah Akbar as a way of saying Fuck You to the regime.

Or at least you think you read blogs of "Iranian atheists". 

[DisturbedPervert]

Man, what I wouldn't give to be manning a machine gun nest at one of those protests. .

I'd be worried about a Zerg rush.

[Ed Anger]

http://joyn.org/conspiracy/ThePiratebay-owned-by-CIA.html

A fun one from fark.com

[Admiral Yi]

More brave than you are, basement warrior.

Hey!

[Neil]

Did you just find out Iranians are monsters?

The Basij are as bad as Hansmeister or anyone else thought they were.  Maybe worse.  But I have to admire the people who go out into the streets knowing that they face death.  The latest chants are MARG BAR KHAMENEI (death to Khamenei) and I WELCOME DEATH I WELCOME DEATH BUT NOT SUBJUGATION.  Takes balls.

Let's not go crazy here.  Sure, they're a thuggish militia, but it's not like they've done anything severe yet.

[Neil]

What they want is to join the modern Western world.  They already know that they belong, but also know that their government, for its own reasons, is keeping them isolated.

They don't belong.  They're not white, nor are they Japanese.

The Russians are closer to joining the West than the Iranians.

[Queequeg]

A Supreme Leader Loses His Aura as Iranians Flock to the Streets

By ROGER COHEN
TEHRAN — The Iranian police commander, in green uniform, walked up Komak Hospital Alley with arms raised and his small unit at his side. "I swear to God," he shouted at the protesters facing him, "I have children, I have a wife, I don't want to beat people. Please go home."

A man at my side threw a rock at him. The commander, unflinching, continued to plead. There were chants of "Join us! Join us!" The unit retreated toward Revolution Street, where vast crowds eddied back and forth confronted by baton-wielding Basij militia and black-clad riot police officers on motorbikes.

Dark smoke billowed over this vast city in the late afternoon. Motorbikes were set on fire, sending bursts of bright flame skyward. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader, had used his Friday sermon to declare high noon in Tehran, warning of "bloodshed and chaos" if protests over a disputed election persisted.

He got both on Saturday — and saw the hitherto sacrosanct authority of his office challenged as never before since the 1979 revolution birthed the Islamic Republic and conceived for it a leadership post standing at the very flank of the Prophet. A multitude of Iranians took their fight through a holy breach on Saturday from which there appears to be scant turning back.

Khamenei has taken a radical risk. He has factionalized himself, so losing the arbiter's lofty garb, by aligning himself with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad against both Mir Hussein Moussavi, the opposition leader, and Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, a founding father of the revolution.

He has taunted millions of Iranians by praising their unprecedented participation in an election many now view as a ballot-box putsch. He has ridiculed the notion that an official inquiry into the vote might yield a different result. He has tried pathos and he has tried pounding his lectern. In short, he has lost his aura.

The taboo-breaking response was unequivocal. It's funny how people's obsessions come back to bite them. I've been hearing about Khamenei's fear of "velvet revolutions" for months now. There was nothing velvet about Saturday's clashes. In fact, the initial quest to have Moussavi's votes properly counted and Ahmadinejad unseated has shifted to a broader confrontation with the regime itself.

Garbage burned. Crowds bayed. Smoke from tear gas swirled. Hurled bricks sent phalanxes of police, some with automatic rifles, into retreat to the accompaniment of cheers. Early afternoon rumors that the rally for Moussavi had been canceled yielded to the reality of violent confrontation.

I don't know where this uprising is leading. I do know some police units are wavering. That commander talking about his family was not alone. There were other policemen complaining about the unruly Basij. Some security forces just stood and watched. "All together, all together, don't be scared," the crowd shouted.

I also know that Iran's women stand in the vanguard. For days now, I've seen them urging less courageous men on. I've seen them get beaten and return to the fray. "Why are you sitting there?" one shouted at a couple of men perched on the sidewalk on Saturday. "Get up! Get up!"

Another green-eyed woman, Mahin, aged 52, staggered into an alley clutching her face and in tears. Then, against the urging of those around her, she limped back into the crowd moving west toward Freedom Square. Cries of "Death to the dictator!" and "We want liberty!" accompanied her.

There were people of all ages. I saw an old man on crutches, middle-aged office workers and bands of teenagers. Unlike the student revolts of 2003 and 1999, this movement is broad.

"Can't the United Nations help us?" one woman asked me. I said I doubted that very much. "So," she said, "we are on our own."

The world is watching, and technology is connecting, and the West is sending what signals it can, but in the end that is true. Iranians have fought this lonely fight for a long time: to be free, to have a measure of democracy.

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the leader of the Islamic revolution, understood that, weaving a little plurality into an authoritarian system. That pluralism has ebbed and flowed since 1979 — mainly the former — but last week it was crushed with blunt brutality. That is why a whole new generation of Iranians, their intelligence insulted, has risen.

I'd say the momentum is with them for now. At moments on Saturday, Khamenei's authority, which is that of the Islamic Republic itself, seemed fragile. The revolutionary authorities have always mocked the cancer-ridden Shah ceding before an uprising, and vowed never to bend in the same way. But they are facing a swelling test.

Just off Revolution Street, I walked into a pall of tear gas. I'd lit a cigarette minutes before — not a habit but a need — and a young man collapsed into me shouting: "Blow smoke in my face." Smoke dispels the effects of the gas to some degree.

I did what I could and he said "We are with you" in English and with my colleague we tumbled into a dead end — Tehran is full of them — running from the searing gas and police. I gasped and fell through a door into an apartment building where somebody had lit a small fire in a dish to relieve the stinging.

There were about 20 of us gathered there, eyes running, hearts racing. A 19-year-old student was nursing his left leg, struck by a militiaman with an electric-shock-delivering baton. "No way we are turning back," said a friend of his as he massaged that wounded leg.

Later, we moved north, tentatively, watching police lash out from time to time, reaching Victory Square where a pitched battle was in progress. Young men were breaking bricks and stones to the right size for hurling. Crowds gathered on overpasses, filming and cheering the protesters. A car burst into flames. Back and forth the crowd surged, confronted by less-than-convincing police units.

I looked up through the smoke and saw a poster of the stern visage of Khomeini above the words, "Islam is the religion of freedom."

Later, as night fell over the tumultuous capital, from rooftops across the city, the defiant sound of "Allah-u-Akbar" — "God is Great" — went up yet again, as it has every night since the fraudulent election, but on Saturday it seemed stronger. The same cry was heard in 1979, only for one form of absolutism to yield to another. Iran has waited long enough to be free.

[jimmy olsen]

Saw on CNN that they have unconfirmed reports of 150 dead.

EDIT: Here's an article.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/20/iran.election/index.html

Double EDIT: On CNN they say that helicopters are dropping boiling water on the crowds.

[jimmy olsen]

Mousavi's not backing down.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/mousavis-latest-statement-i-followed-them.html

Mousavi's Latest Statement: "I Followed Them"

[Via Iranfacts]

"In the name of God, the kind and the merciful

Indeed god demands you to safe keep what people entrust in you, and to rule them with justice. [this a verse of Koran]

BLOODHAND0620:Getty

Respectable and intelligent people of Iran, These nights and days, a pivotal moment in our history is taking place. People ask each other: "what should we do?, which way should we go?". It is my duty to share with you what I believe, and to learn from you, may we never forget our historical task and not give up on the duty we are given by the destiny of times and generations.

30 years ago, in this country a revolution became victorious in the name of Islam, a revolution for  freedom, a revolution for reviving the dignity of men, a revolution for truth and justice. In those times, especially when our enlightened Imam [Khomeini] was alive, large amount of lives and matters were invested to legitimize this foundation and many valuable achievements were attained. An unprecedented enlightenment captured our society, and our people reached a new life where they endured the hardest of hardships with a sweet taste. What this people gained was dignity and freedom and a gift of the life of the pure ones [i.e. 12 Imams of Shiites]. I am certain that those who have seen those days will not be satisfied with anything less. Had we as a people lost certain talents that we were unable to experience that early spirituality? I had come to say that that was not the case. It is not late yet, we are not far from that enlightened space yet.

I had come to show that it was possible to live spiritually while living in a modern world. I had come to repeat Imam's warnings about fundamentalism. I had come to say that evading the law leads to dictatorship; and to remind that paying attention to people's dignity does not diminish the foundations of the regime, but strengthens it.

I had come to say that people wish honesty and integrity from their servants, and that many of our perils have arisen from lies. I had come to say that poverty and backwardness, corruption and injustice were not our destiny. I had come to re-invite to the Islamic revolution, as it had to be, and Islamic republic as it has to be. In this invitation, I was not charismatic [articulate], but the core message of revolution was so appealing that it surpassed my articulation and excited the young generation who had not seen those days to recreate scenes which we had not seen since the days of revolution[1979] and the sacred defense. The people's movement chose green as its symbol. I confess that in this, I followed them.

And a generation that was accused of being removed from religion, has now reached "God is Great", "Victory's of God and victory's near", "Ya hossein" in their chants to prove that when this tree fruits, they all resemble. No one taught hem these slogans, they reached them by the teachings of instinct.


How unfair are those whose petty advantages make them call this a "velvet revolution" staged by foreigners! [refering to state TV and Khameneni, perhaps!] But as you know, all of us were faced with deception and cheatings when we claimed to revitalize our nation and realize dreams that root in the hearts of young and old. And that which we had predicted will stem from evading law [dictatorship], realized soon in the worst manifestation.

The large voter turnout in recent election was the result of hard work to create hope and confidence in people, to create a deserving response to those whose broad dissatisfaction with the existing management crisis could have targeted the foundations of the regime. If this good will and trust of the poeple is not addressed via protecting their votes, or if they cannot react in a civil manner to claim their rights, the responsibility of the dangerous routs ahead will be on the shoulders of those who do not tolerate civil protests. If the large volume of cheating and vote rigging, which has set fire to the hays of people's anger, is expressed as the evidence of fairness, the republican nature of the state will be killed and in practice, the ideology that Islam and Republicanism are incompatible will be proven.

This outcome will make two groups happy: One, those who since the beginning of revolution stood against Imam and called the Islamic state a dictatorship of the elite who want to take people to heaven by force; and the other, those who in defending the human rights, consider religion and Islam against republicanism. Imam's fantastic art was to neutralize these dichotomies. I had come to focus on Imam's approach to neutralize the burgeoning magic of these. Now, by confirming the results of election, by limiting the extent of investigation in a manner that the outcome will not be changed, even though in more than 170 branches the number of cast votes was more than 100% of eligible voters of the riding, the heads of the state have accepted the responsibility of what has happened during the election.

In these conditions, we are asked to follow our complaints via the Guardian council, while this council has proven its bias, not only before and during, but also after the election. The first principle of judgment is to be impartial. I, continue to strongly believe that the request for annulling the vote and repeating the election is a definite right that has to be considered by impartial and nationally trusted delegation. Not to dismiss the results of this investigation a priori, or to prevent people from demonstration by threatening them to bloodshed. Nor to unleash the Intelligence ministry's plain clothes forces on people's lives to disperse crowds by intimidation and inflammation, instead of responding to people's legitimate questions, and then blaming the bloodshed on others.

As I am looking at the scene, I see it set for advancing a new political agenda that spreads beyond the objective of installing an unwanted government. As a companion who has seen the beauties of your green wave, I will never allow any one's life endangered because of my actions. At the same time, I remain undeterred on my demand for annulling the election and demanding people's rights. Despite my limited abilities, I believe that your motivation and creativity can pursue your legitimate demands in new civil manners.

Be sure that I will always stand with you. What this brother of yours recommends, especially to the dear youth, in terms of finding new solutions is to not allow liars and cheater steal your flag of defense of Islamic state, and foreigners rip the treasures of the Islamic republic which are your inheritance of the blood of your decent fathers. By trust in God, and hope for the future, and leaning on the strength of social movements, claim your rights in the frameworks of the existing constitution, based on principle of non-violence.

In this, we are not confronting the Basij. Basiji is our brother. In this we are not confronting the revolutionary guard. The guard is the keeper of our revolution. We are not confronting the army, the army is the keeper of our borders. These organs are the keepers of our independence, freedom and our Islamic republic. We are confronting deception and lies, we want to reform them, a reform by return to the pure principles of revolution.

We advise the authorities, to calm down the streets. Based on article 27 of the constitution, not only provide space for peaceful protest, but also encourage such gatherings. The state TV should stop badmouthing and taking sides. Before voices turn into shouting, let them be heard in reasonable debates. Let the press criticize, and write the news as they happen. In one word, create a free space for people to express their agreements and disagreements. Let those who want, say "takbeer" and don't consider it opposition. It is clear that in this case, there won't be a need for security forces on the streets, and we won't have to face pictures and hear news that break the heart of anyone who loves the country and the revolution.

Your brother and companion Mir Hossein Mousavi

(Photo: A supporter of Iran's defeated presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi shows her hand covered in the blood of a wounded person during a demonstration on June 20, 2009 in Tehran, Iran. Thousands of Iranians clashed with police as they defied an ultimatum from supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei calling for an end to protests over last week's disputed presidential election results. Iranian police have tried to break up protest using water cannon, tear gas, batons and live rounds. Getty.)

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I don't think Iran will turn into a democracy even if the protesters win.  Do they want to change the system or do they want to change who is in charge?  Somehow I think it is the latter.

I admit I don't know much about the Iranian situation, but I think it's the opposite to what you are saying - the idea of Iran being democratic (if shitty) I think was one of the selling points of the regime to the people. After all, these riots are over election results.

That's not something people in non-democratic countries riot over (even in communist Poland, until 1989 the protests never really were aimed at changing those in power per se, but improving working conditions, freedom of press etc.)

revolutions have a tendency to get crazy, unexpected results.
I doubt the french desired to set up the Terror
I doubt the rusians desired to set up communist dictatorship they got
hell, even the iranians originally didn't want the regime they have now.

-------

Seems to me that Iran is now having a bona-fide revolution with only two possible outcomes (3 actually but it would be preferable if that didn't happen)
1. The regime hits back hard and crushes the revolution
2. The Revolution succeeds and replaces the regime with something to be determined
(3. Both the regime and the revolution fail and we get a civil war.)

[Jaron]

LOL , whats next? Boiling oil and going to catapault dead cows into the crowds?

This is comedy GOLD!

[Queequeg]

Some people are saying that it's fake.

Some people are misanthropic idiots.

It sounds like she was shot in the lounge; the blood on her face and mouth are from her coughing it up, and I've read enough about the photo that it seems genuine.  There's a lot of confusion in the scene, too, which in my mind also makes it seem more likely to be genuine.  The angles are too awkward, the look on her face too...confused.  It is probably among the worst things I've ever seen in my life, I'll never forget it.