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Men With Guns Are Also Active Elsewhere.

Started by mongers, April 12, 2014, 09:19:03 PM

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MadImmortalMan

The locals are so damn tired of not being able to do dick without the BLM saying so. This is how Harry Reid made his money. BLM says no to X project. Reid's son's company magically gets permission after some senator applies pressure. Business as usual.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

CountDeMoney

Since when did you start getting Teabagged?  BLM says no to X project, because they're the Bureau of LAND MANAGEMENT. 

And no, the local yahoos don't get to do what they want on it, because they don't MANAGE the LAND when they do.

Without regulatory guidance, you have shit like towns in Texas getting blown up and chemicals in West Virginia water supplies.  The locals?  Fuck the locals.  Fucking monkeys can't be trusted with their own dicks, let alone Federal land.

grumbler

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 15, 2014, 04:09:25 AM
The locals are so damn tired of not being able to do dick without the BLM saying so. This is how Harry Reid made his money. BLM says no to X project. Reid's son's company magically gets permission after some senator applies pressure. Business as usual.

Oh, I understand the frustration.  I don't think the US government should be in the land-managing business (per se) at all.  It should sell off all that Western land* at auction and use the proceeds to pay down debt.

You'd need to manage the sales so that megacorps don't just buy it all for pennies on the mineral rights dollar asnd so that locals get the first crack at it, but that should be doable.

*not, obviously, to inclue national parks.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 15, 2014, 06:01:17 AM
And no, the local yahoos don't get to do what they want on it, because they don't MANAGE the LAND when they do.

Actually as much as I hate to defend Bundy, he was taking care of the land, managing & improving the irrigation systems & whatnot.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Norgy


derspiess

Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2014, 08:55:47 AM
Nothing that napalm can't fix.


Don't use too much.  I like my steak medium rare.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

One thing I have never gotten is why the Feds own like 90% of Nevada.  I thought maybe because it was a massive desert national park or something but clearly not.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

derspiess

Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2014, 08:57:45 AM
One thing I have never gotten is why the Feds own like 90% of Nevada.  I thought maybe because it was a massive desert national park or something but clearly not.

To protect turtles or something.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

DGuller

Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2014, 08:57:45 AM
One thing I have never gotten is why the Feds own like 90% of Nevada.  I thought maybe because it was a massive desert national park or something but clearly not.
DHS need some place to stockpile all their ammunition in preparation for, well, you know what.

Norgy

Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2014, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2014, 08:57:45 AM
One thing I have never gotten is why the Feds own like 90% of Nevada.  I thought maybe because it was a massive desert national park or something but clearly not.

To protect turtles or something.

Might be something to do with 19th century railroad-building? I am fairly certain you won't find a turtle in a landlocked area. A tortoise, maybe.

derspiess

#57
Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2014, 09:17:21 AM
I am fairly certain you won't find a turtle in a landlocked area. A tortoise, maybe.

:nerd:

Anyway here in 'Murica they're all turtles. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

OttoVonBismarck

BLM land is basically all the land covered by things like the Mexican Cession, the Louisiana Purchase and etc that was previously covered by the Homestead Act. That's why the BLM owns very little land East of the Mississippi. It's basically all the land that people didn't homestead, which incidentally tended to be mostly the worst land for agriculture, so your deserts and such. Some of the land though is perfectly suitable for grazing, but not for large scale agriculture so for ages people had grazed their cattle on the land.

Bundy claims his family has grazed cattle on this parcel since the 1870s, but research into that claim has shown it to be questionable (he did have an ancestor in the area in the 1870s, but I don't believe they can prove he was a cattle rancher.) Anyway, prior to the 1930s people grazed on the land since it was basically unclaimed land. When the BLM was officially organized and Homesteading ended, they wrote in provisions allowing various uses of the land. Some people have grazed cattle on BLM land, some have extracted natural resources etc.

For decades there was no fee, and then Reagan started imposing fees in the 1980s. Essentially to correct free riding, because people were making money off of the land and paying nothing, which isn't necessarily bad, but the BLM was actually building access roads for people, maintaining the land in various ways and etc. So these people were actually getting the benefits of land ownership without the expenses, and the Federal government was making up the difference. I believe the grazing fees are very paltry, it's only so high for Bundy because of the size of the land he's using and the fact that he's literally never paid these fees for almost 30 years running.

Bundy's argument is basically "I used to do this and there were no fees, I don't like that there are fees now, so I won't pay them."

A bigger issue than these fees though is the unfortunate environmentalist tactic now of using lawsuits to close off perfectly productive Federal lands. They make BS claims about animals that are dispersed through the entire West being threatened by productive commercial activity on BLM lands, and with the Obama White House being responsible for defending these suits, they just immediately settle and cave to the environmental groups. It's been a "back door" way for environmentalists and the White House to essentially close off access to public lands. It's for no legitimate environmental reason, but just because of  that vein of environmentalists who believe any profit from natural resources is immoral. I've always considered myself a conservationist and do donate to conservationist causes, but the people trying to stop all productive commerce west of the Mississippi due to endangered quail or something are a blight on mankind.

Razgovory

Quote from: Norgy on April 15, 2014, 09:17:21 AM
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2014, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2014, 08:57:45 AM
One thing I have never gotten is why the Feds own like 90% of Nevada.  I thought maybe because it was a massive desert national park or something but clearly not.

To protect turtles or something.

Might be something to do with 19th century railroad-building? I am fairly certain you won't find a turtle in a landlocked area. A tortoise, maybe.

It seems that it has to do with the purchase of land after the Mexican war.  It was never Bundy's land.  He was just a renter  The BLM became concerned about over grazing back in 1990's and curtailed grazing over parts of it.  At that point Bundy refused to recognized the Federal government or whatever he does and became a squatter.

And something to show the character of the right wing militia's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZd61_9hofE  Human shields.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017