The Vietnam War

[Ideologue]

Willard is pretty badass.

[PJL]

Going back to the original topic, there is no way the US would have co-operated with Vietnam 1945-47. They were more pre-occupied with the situation in Europe, the Cold War hadn't even got going, and relations with the USSR, let alone any other communists were not yet frozen (though getting colder).

1948-53 was very much stabilising the situation in Europe and then the Far East (China/Korea/Taiwan/Japan). So the earliest the US could have realistically sort out Vietnam was the mid 50's. And by then they had already divided between North and South. Korea & Germany had shown a two state solution was viable, and anything else was too much work. Hence the ruling out of invading North Vietnam.

Other than putting more resources in making South Vietnam a viable country (as South Korea had become) capable of defending itself with US support and counter-insurgency effort, there was not much else the US could have done.

[derspiess]

I read somewhere that "Apocalypse Now" actually inspired army recruitment - which I thought was really bizzare (assuming it is true).

I can see that, easily.  Everyone in my ROTC class could quote almost every line from the film.  Full Metal Jacket might have been slightly more popular, though.  GET SOME!!!

[Malthus]

I read somewhere that "Apocalypse Now" actually inspired army recruitment - which I thought was really bizzare (assuming it is true).

I can see that, easily.  Everyone in my ROTC class could quote almost every line from the film.  Full Metal Jacket might have been slightly more popular, though.  GET SOME!!!

Evidently, the pool of people who are inspired by the thought of ending up a divorced drunken failure put on impossible missions hunting after psychotic madmen on their own side in the middle of a pointless war is larger than I imagined. 

[Valmy]

Evidently, the pool of people who are inspired by the thought of ending up a divorced drunken failure put on impossible missions hunting after psychotic madmen on their own side in the middle of a pointless war is larger than I imagined. 

Anything that gets a movie made about you is inspiring.

[derspiess]

Evidently, the pool of people who are inspired by the thought of ending up a divorced drunken failure put on impossible missions hunting after psychotic madmen on their own side in the middle of a pointless war is larger than I imagined. 

Yes, that's the aspect of the movie everyone focused on.  Not the Air Cav scene or any of the other war-glorifying aspects of the film.

[alfred russel]

Going back to the original topic, there is no way the US would have co-operated with Vietnam 1945-47.

This was not the original topic.

[Malthus]

Evidently, the pool of people who are inspired by the thought of ending up a divorced drunken failure put on impossible missions hunting after psychotic madmen on their own side in the middle of a pointless war is larger than I imagined. 

Yes, that's the aspect of the movie everyone focused on.  Not the Air Cav scene or any of the other war-glorifying aspects of the film.

Well, that *is* the plot, so it should be no surprsie that people "focus" on it.

The Air Cav scene was a massacre of a bunch of villagers protected by a handful of totally outgunned militia - ends with a woman tossing a grenade into a medivac heli, and then being shot down. The Ride of the Valkyries was cool though.

[Norgy]

Evidently, the pool of people who are inspired by the thought of ending up a divorced drunken failure put on impossible missions hunting after psychotic madmen on their own side in the middle of a pointless war is larger than I imagined. 

Yes, that's the aspect of the movie everyone focused on.  Not the Air Cav scene or any of the other war-glorifying aspects of the film.

It's just awesome.
I bloody love that scene with choppers flying in, Wagner blasting. "Charlie don't surf".
Yes, it's hardly what you'd think some Euroweenie social democrat would love, but in some way it just explains the madness of war better than a five hour documentary.

[derspiess]

Well, that *is* the plot, so it should be no surprsie that people "focus" on it.

That's only one aspect (or layer, if you will) of the plot.  But anyway that's fine if you focus on it.  Just don't expect 16-23 year old males to be hung up on the plot when the film contains one of the greatest battle scenes ever filmed.

The Air Cav scene was a massacre of a bunch of villagers protected by a handful of totally outgunned militia - ends with a woman tossing a grenade into a medivac heli, and then being shot down. The Ride of the Valkyries was cool though.

No.  It was an assault on a VC strongpoint ("hairy", "they shot the hell out of us there", etc.) that had mortars and heavy machineguns.  Had the VC not been there, a battle wouldn't have even been necessary.  The 'dink bitch' 'sapper' part was jarring, but jarring is a key element to a well-shot battle scene.

[derspiess]

It's just awesome.
I bloody love that scene with choppers flying in, Wagner blasting. "Charlie don't surf".
Yes, it's hardly what you'd think some Euroweenie social democrat would love, but in some way it just explains the madness of war better than a five hour documentary.

If it makes you feel any better, that scene was directed by a French dude.

[Valmy]

If it makes you feel any better, that scene was directed by a French dude.

He knew all about the futility of fighting in Vietnam.

[Razgovory]

I didn't really see Apocalypse Now as a anti-war or pro-war film.  It's a film that takes place during the war, but the war is not the main issue.  I thought of it more as a surreal horror film were things get crazier and crazier as they go up river.

[The Brain]

In many ways it sticks fairly close to the book. And the book is about both the inner workings of the people in it and the issue of Belgian macroaggression.

[derspiess]

I didn't really see Apocalypse Now as a anti-war or pro-war film.  It's a film that takes place during the war, but the war is not the main issue.  I thought of it more as a surreal horror film were things get crazier and crazier as they go up river.

It's many things.  That's what's so cool about it.