Europe at origin of chronic US execution dilemma

Started by garbon, February 18, 2014, 11:46:34 AM

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Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017


sbr

Oregon allows doctor assisted suicide but my understanding is that it is an oral dose of pills or capsules.


sbr


The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.


sbr

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2014, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: sbr on February 20, 2014, 03:01:36 PM
Which part?

The part you edited.

I had a typo because of auto correct on my phone.  I said oral fist instead of dose; that was the only thing I edited.


sbr


The Minsky Moment

I believe what the research shows is that the likelihood or certainty of getting caught does have a deterrent impact.  But the relatively severity of punishment is not as significant a factor.
The US tends to have longer or harsher penalties on the statute books than Europe but not really because those longer penalties are supposed to generate more deterrence.  The more important purpose is to generate prosecutorial leverage for plea and cooperation agreements, which have become key tools for obtaining evidence and convictions.  European systems tend to work differently in this regard - the penalties are lower in theory but there is much less of a chance that a suspect will be pled down and tried on a lower charge.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

DGuller

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2014, 10:35:45 AM
I believe what the research shows is that the likelihood or certainty of getting caught does have a deterrent impact.  But the relatively severity of punishment is not as significant a factor.
The US tends to have longer or harsher penalties on the statute books than Europe but not really because those longer penalties are supposed to generate more deterrence.  The more important purpose is to generate prosecutorial leverage for plea and cooperation agreements, which have become key tools for obtaining evidence and convictions.  European systems tend to work differently in this regard - the penalties are lower in theory but there is much less of a chance that a suspect will be pled down and tried on a lower charge.
I think some of it is also down to American mentality.  We view prisons not as a measured punishment, but rather as a mechanism to segregate criminals from society.  Therefore, the longer the prison sentence, the more effective the prisons are at fulfilling that role.

Capetan Mihali

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2014, 10:35:45 AM
The US tends to have longer or harsher penalties on the statute books than Europe but not really because those longer penalties are supposed to generate more deterrence.  The more important purpose is to generate prosecutorial leverage for plea and cooperation agreements, which have become key tools for obtaining evidence and convictions.  European systems tend to work differently in this regard - the penalties are lower in theory but there is much less of a chance that a suspect will be pled down and tried on a lower charge.

We have much longer and harsher penalties in reality as well as on the books.  And Canada engages in a similar plea bargaining system, but doesn't have nearly the excessive prison sentences the US does.
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grumbler

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 21, 2014, 11:34:42 AM
We have much longer and harsher penalties in reality as well as on the books.  And Canada engages in a similar plea bargaining system, but doesn't have nearly the excessive prison sentences the US does.

I think that, in Canada, a politician has to talk about doing something to increase the odds of catching criminals in order to be considered "tough on crime."  In the US, that title comes from  proposing laws that will fuck over minorities more than the current laws do.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Barrister

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 21, 2014, 11:34:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 21, 2014, 10:35:45 AM
The US tends to have longer or harsher penalties on the statute books than Europe but not really because those longer penalties are supposed to generate more deterrence.  The more important purpose is to generate prosecutorial leverage for plea and cooperation agreements, which have become key tools for obtaining evidence and convictions.  European systems tend to work differently in this regard - the penalties are lower in theory but there is much less of a chance that a suspect will be pled down and tried on a lower charge.

We have much longer and harsher penalties in reality as well as on the books.  And Canada engages in a similar plea bargaining system, but doesn't have nearly the excessive prison sentences the US does.

I don't think we have a "similar" plea bargaining system.

Do we sometimes engage in plea bargaining?  Yes.  But the usual rule of thumb is that if you enter a plea you might get about 1/3 off your sentence as opposed to taking it to trial.

There's none of this 'if you don't accept our plea you're going to receive a 99 year sentence' kind of negotiating I hear about in the US.
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