Europe at origin of chronic US execution dilemma

[Ed Anger]

But, it annoys Europeans. That is a plus.

[Valmy]

But, it annoys Europeans. That is a plus.

Easier just to keep our heartless worker-oppressing Capitalism gone mad and believe in God and stuff.

[grumbler]

How about because it doesn't work as a deterrent?

I bet 20 years on death row followed by an execution is no cheaper for the state than a "life means life" jail term too.

It works no better or worse than prison as a deterrent, so the issue is moot.  I don't think anyone argues any more that the DP is cheaper than life in prison.  If saving money is your over-riding concern, of course, you just don't prosecute.

[derspiess]

Easier just to keep our heartless worker-oppressing Capitalism gone mad and believe in God and stuff.

And tipping.  Don't forget the tipping.

[Drakken]

If painless and quick is the goal, the guillotine should be used.

Guillotine is incredibly messy, plus the first assistant risks getting his fingertips cut.

[The Minsky Moment]

Not too mention the fact that if there was a mistake made, the odds of it being found are vastly greater in a death penalty case than a life imprisonment case.

The odds are greater, not necessarily vastly so.  A lot depends on the quality of counsel and the ethics of the prosecutors which can vary both by state and by chance.
The other consideration is that there are very significant costs to administrating the DP system, in part because of the various safeguards, which raises the question whether it is really worth it for the small number of cases that are prosecuted as capital crimes.

[grumbler]

The other consideration is that there are very significant costs to administrating the DP system, in part because of the various safeguards, which raises the question whether it is really worth it for the small number of cases that are prosecuted as capital crimes.

And a final consideration is whether or not one really wants to give that power to one's government.  I am in favor of giving governments only those powers that they manifestly need, and they don't need this power.

[Sheilbh]

Nah, we are fairly normal when you look at the whole world. You guys have a fierce jail fetish.

5% of the world's population and 25% of its prisoners, life sentences for non-violent crimes, long-term isolation in supermax prisons, a for-profit prison industry etc.

American exceptionalism at its finest.

Also civic death punishments like losing the right to vote.

True that, I think we closed eight prisons last year. There was even a plan to import Belgian prisoners at one point. 

I find the politics of this really interesting. All over the West crime is decline. Prison populations should be and, prisons should be closing. That's not happening in most places because no one wants to appear soft on crime. It's like a Potemkin penal policy.

[Josquius]

One thing I'm not quite getting here...surely those chemicals have innocent purposes too? Ones progressive countries generally look favourably on, e.g. euthanasia. How is it so easy to stop them falling into the executioners hands?

[celedhring]

I don't think there are that many US states that allow for euthanasia (which is not the same as just unplugging life support).

It's probably written in the export contracts anyway, going off the article the chem manufacturers seem to be the first interested in not endangering other business because of the DP. These kind of chems are highly controlled and regulated, so I don't think it's so easy as selling them to a hospital for whatever medical purposes and then have the Corrections guys drop by and pocket a few.

[Siege]

How do you know the DP is not a deterrence?
Who did the research, etc?

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think there are that many US states that allow for euthanasia (which is not the same as just unplugging life support).

None that I'm aware of.

[crazy canuck]

How do you know the DP is not a deterrence?
Who did the research, etc?

There is a large body of research that the consequences of a criminal act often has little deterent effect on people who would commit those offences whether those consequences are prision or death. As for looking at the death penalty itself there is no evidence it provides any more deterent than any other form of punishment.

[Ed Anger]

I like DP.

[derspiess]

I like DP.

And he likes you