Where In The UK Should You Actually Live?

[Sheilbh]

Not in my experience.  Well off professionals don't need to buy a busted down property in the slum and fix it up.

They probably do in London given the cost - especially creative professionals.

I think historically gays had to build up shitty areas because they wouldn't be allowed in already nice areas. Now I think they're more likely to be a sign that an area's gentrifying than the cause. Also I think it's more likely to have an effect in a smaller city (Liverpool and Manchester, say) than somewhere the size of London.

The Dairy gave me one of the best meals I've had in the last 5 years and the cinema decent.

My flatmate raves about the Dairy (went there with his boss) I still haven't been.

Had no idea that you were in Peckham Shelf. Very exciting place these days - loads of great bars and restauraunts springing up.

It's great. I like it a lot. If you've not been I really recommend Peckham Bazaar.

How's Shoreditch? I will be staying with a friend there this summer and apparently it's Hipster Central around there...

Shoreditch is great. I used to live near there (Whitechapel) and it's a really fun area.

How does a Yookay hipster compare to an American hipster?

More or less the same I think. Based on the internet and a friend of a friend in Brooklyn.

I hear Camberwell is filling up with arty types now.

I think it must have always been a bit because there's a big college of art down here. But, yeah, recently two rival bike shops (also serving coffee) opened opposite each other in the same week. The area's arrived

Sadly I've not seen any new restaurants or bars - though there's some good ones anyway - but there's a few places being done up so

[The Larch]

London Hipsters, according to my Shoreditch buddy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmmYMwFj1I

[Admiral Yi]

I think historically gays had to build up shitty areas because they wouldn't be allowed in already nice areas.

What??

I always figured it was because they enjoyed decorating and didn't have any kids to worry about.

[Sheilbh]

What??

I always figured it was because they enjoyed decorating and didn't have any kids to worry about.

Really?

That's why Stonewall was a mafia run bar. Why Soho was the gay area because it was already seedy with the sex shops, peep shows and brothels. Similarly why lots of disco started in people's apartments and run-down areas, or in the 80s why Earl's Court was a big gay and immigrant area.

I'd say until the 90s (at the earliest) most neighbourhoods didn't want the gays anywhere near them. The neighbourhoods with money had the education, connections and cash to stop them moving in.

[Gups]

Shelf

Been meaning to get to Peckham Bazaar for a while now. I'm a fan of the food blog the owner's girlfriend writes.

http://helengraves.co.uk/

I lived in Camberwell for years and it was really crap. Nowhere to drink, nowhere to eat excepy greasy spoons. Now it has some brilliant Spanish, Turkish and regional Chinese places. Can't believe it will ever become truly gentrified, with no tube station and the railway station a mile up the hill.

I'm now in West Norwood, whcih also has nowhere to drink or eat and appears to be the only place left in the inner suburbs not to be gentrified. I am the jonah of regeneration.

[Gups]

What??

I always figured it was because they enjoyed decorating and didn't have any kids to worry about.

Really?

That's why Stonewall was a mafia run bar. Why Soho was the gay area because it was already seedy with the sex shops, peep shows and brothels. Similarly why lots of disco started in people's apartments and run-down areas, or in the 80s why Earl's Court was a big gay and immigrant area.

I'd say until the 90s (at the earliest) most neighbourhoods didn't want the gays anywhere near them. The neighbourhoods with money had the education, connections and cash to stop them moving in.

Yeah but Soho and Vauxhall are places where there is a cluster of gay bars and clubs not really where lots of gay people live. I've never really had teh impression that there are any particular clusters of gay localities like the Castro in SF.

[Admiral Yi]

Does seem we're talking about different things Shelf.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah but Soho and Vauxhall are places where there is a cluster of gay bars and clubs not really where lots of gay people live. I've never really had teh impression that there are any particular clusters of gay localities like the Castro in SF.

Yeah that's a big difference. I don't think there are any areas like that in London. I think it's more like that in regional cities like Liverpool and Manchester.

But that's what I mean by London being too big for that sort of thing - and I think it may be the same in the US. The gays moving in can have an effect on a smaller city like Brighton or San Fran, but in big cities like London, New York or Chicago gay friendly businesses opening up is likely more a symptom than a cause of gentrification.

You're probably right on Camberwell never fully gentrifying. The transport is awful. But that's fine by me, it'll keep it easy to get a table in Silk Road and FM Mangal.

[Jacob]

Does seem we're talking about different things Shelf.

Around these parts, the main drivers of gentrification are either youngish but professionally successful families looking to by property and fix it up; condo developers doing pretty much the same thing on a neighbourhood scale while trying to appeal to single people with careers as well as families; and trendyish businesses like restaurant/clothes shops/tech start ups looking for cheaper office space than available elsewhere. The gays haven't really figured into it uniquely (though some are youngish professional families looking for property, or career minded individuals with disposable cash in the condo market).

Were there any particular places you had in mind when you were talking of gays being a driver of gentrification?

[garbon]

I could see mentioning gays for Castro/Mission and Meatpacking/Chelsea/West Village/Hell's Kitchen.  Though I'd mention too that they are just one step in a process. West Village now overrun with families.

[The Brain]

Gay families.

[merithyn]

In the US gays are typically the main drivers of gentrification.

I think it's more accurate to say that well-off urban professionals and the businesses which employ and cater to them, are the main driver of gentrification. This may include a larger percentage of gay people than average in the US, but it does not make the gays the main driver.

There are plenty of economically marginalized gay people; and there are plenty of straight people - and companies - involved in gentrification.

I'd say this applies mostly to those not ready/willing to have children specifically, since school districts aren't a factor. That can mean that you'll get a higher proportion of gays than in other areas.

[garbon]

Gay families.

More like SJP families.

[Admiral Yi]

Were there any particular places you had in mind when you were talking of gays being a driver of gentrification?

DC in particular, but I think they played a part in NYC as well.

[Josquius]

So where in London sucks these days? My knowledge of which areas are dodgy is mostly based on old dramas and comedies.
Tower hamlets?