Snowden Interview

[Berkut]

Nah, the South has pretty much been reconciled for some time now.

[Razgovory]

Well terrorism and nuclear war can be somewhat analogous to house fires and a nuclear meltdown.  There has been a great deal of concern over nuclear meltdown in this country despite it never happening and very low chance of it actually happening.  If one occurs it would be catastrophic.  On the other hand house fires are fairly common, and have claimed quite a few lives, but are in potential less catastrophic.  Terrorism attacks have occurred, and will occur in the future.  You can't prevent all of them.

True. 9/11 was a house fire.

They didn't teach you what the word "analogous", meant at Stanford?  Talk about overrated.

[Savonarola]

He's the Frank B. Kellogg of his generation:

Snowden nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

Two Norwegian lawmakers say they have nominated former NSA contractor Edward Snowden for the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize.

Socialist lawmakers Baard Vegard Solhjell, a former environment minister, and Snorre Valen said Wednesday the public debate and policy changes "in the wake of Snowden's whistleblowing has contributed to a more stable and peaceful world order."

Snowden fled to Russia, where he has requested temporary asylum after leaking classified security documents detailing widespread phone and email surveillance by the National Security Agency. In some cases, the agency shared the data with British, French and other countries' intelligence units. The files also showed the agency spied on international heads of state, spurring a fierce debate on privacy, sovereignty and security issues.
Snowden has repeatedly asked governing powers to reconsider the balance between privacy and security, and he has demanded that protections for whistleblowers such as himself be put in place before he might return to the United States.

President Barack Obama on Jan. 17 called on the government to reduce its collection of phone data from millions of Americans. He ordered intelligence agencies to obtain permission from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court before accessing such records.

Obama had previously defended surveillance programs as necessary tools in the fight against terrorism. But recently he has attempted to straddle the line between intelligence gathering agencies and privacy advocates.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned Wednesday that countries who spy on their allies risk destroying trust, resulting in less rather than more security. Merkel used her inaugural address to Parliament after her re-election to slam the United States and Britain over their spy programs.

"Actions where the ends justify the means, where everything that is technically possible is done, harms trust," Merkel said. "It sows distrust. In the end there will be less, not more, security."

Snowden will be one of scores of names that the Nobel committee will consider for the prestigious award.

The five-member panel won't confirm who's been nominated, but those who submit nominations sometimes make them public.

Nominators, including members of national parliaments and governments, university professors and previous laureates, must enter their submissions by Feb. 1. Prize committee members can add their own candidates at their first meeting after that deadline.

[The Brain]

I'm shocked that the leader of Germany has something to hide.

[CountDeMoney]

They will take as much power as we are willing to give them to do their jobs. In the service of the Cold War, they did shit all the time that was probably illegal, or of at least very questionable legality. I don't know what rose colored glasses Seedy and the like are wearing when they think of Cold War era intelligence and counter intelligence. After all, it was Cold War intel that decided the US needed to dump a million men into Vietnam.

I don't recall wearing any rose colored glasses re: the Cold War, but feel free to make landfall and talk out of your twat, Typhoon Berkut.

The government took extensive advantage of its powers throughout the Red Scare of the '50s, the Cuban issue of the late '50s and early '60s, to the counter-culture threat of the late '60s and the left-wing threats of the '70s.  The government will always abuse its powers in times of crisis, real or imagined, if nobody is there to stop it.

You can learn more about the Church Committee at your local library.
[/the more you know, bitch]

[Iormlund]

He went straight to opponents of the US, to nations that would benefit the most at learning of US intel practices.

To be fair, what choice did he have?  The enemies of US are your only potential allies when US decides you are its enemy, and Snowden would've been the enemy of the state even if his disclosure were 100% perfectly surgical in blowing the whistle on the bad stuff.

Look up something called "The Pentagon papers" and a man named Daniel Ellsworth, and you will see that your assumptions are incorrect.

I assume you mean Daniel Ellsberg. Who wrote this editorial in support of Snowden's actions.

[CountDeMoney]

Love seeing the trivialization of deaths going on. 9/11 is now a paper cut?

The response to 9/11, from the creation of the DHS to reshuffling of the Federal government's law enforcement, intelligence and warfighting capabilities to the Iraq War to an unhealthy reliance on the present bloated and out-of-control private sector Security-Industrial Complex that has spawned the likes of Snowden, has been a bit out of proportion.

[DontSayBanana]

I don't recall wearing any rose colored glasses re: the Cold War, but feel free to make landfall and talk out of your twat, Typhoon Berkut.

The government took extensive advantage of its powers throughout the Red Scare of the '50s, the Cuban issue of the late '50s and early '60s, to the counter-culture threat of the late '60s and the left-wing threats of the '70s.  The government will always abuse its powers in times of crisis, real or imagined, if nobody is there to stop it.

You can learn more about the Church Committee at your local library.
[/the more you know, bitch]

Why stop at the '70s?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States#1981.E2.80.931989_Ronald_Reagan_Administration

[CountDeMoney]

Because the Reagan Administration was infallible.

[Iormlund]

Snowden's leaks have weakened Western security relationships, corroded public trust, undermined the West's standing in the eyes of the rest of the world and paralyzed our intelligence agencies.

I love it. It's not that we spy everyone that has folks pissed, it's that they now know about it. What a fucking moron.

[Sheilbh]

I love it. It's not that we spy everyone that has folks pissed, it's that they now know about it. What a fucking moron.

More or less. Bernard Kouchner's right, 'the magnitude of the eavesdropping is what shocked us. Let's be honest, we eavesdrop too. Everyone is listening to everyone else. We don't have the same means as the United States — which makes us jealous.'

Everything else is synthetic.

[Berkut]

They will take as much power as we are willing to give them to do their jobs. In the service of the Cold War, they did shit all the time that was probably illegal, or of at least very questionable legality. I don't know what rose colored glasses Seedy and the like are wearing when they think of Cold War era intelligence and counter intelligence. After all, it was Cold War intel that decided the US needed to dump a million men into Vietnam.

I don't recall wearing any rose colored glasses re: the Cold War, but feel free to make landfall and talk out of your twat, Typhoon Berkut.

The government took extensive advantage of its powers throughout the Red Scare of the '50s, the Cuban issue of the late '50s and early '60s, to the counter-culture threat of the late '60s and the left-wing threats of the '70s.  The government will always abuse its powers in times of crisis, real or imagined, if nobody is there to stop it.

You can learn more about the Church Committee at your local library.
[/the more you know, bitch]

Thanks for arguing my point for me.

So today is not some ultra special unusual situation where the state is ZOMG STOMPING ON LIBERTY EVEN MORE THAN IN THE COLD WAR!!!

If anything, it was a lot worse in the Cold War, not better.

Appreciate the concession, no matter how bitterly given.

[Berkut]

Snowden's leaks have weakened Western security relationships, corroded public trust, undermined the West's standing in the eyes of the rest of the world and paralyzed our intelligence agencies.

I love it. It's not that we spy everyone that has folks pissed, it's that they now know about it. What a fucking moron.

That isn't moronic at all. That is how intelligence services has worked 98% of the time that there has been intelligence services, the only exception being those rare countries that make active agreements NOT to spy on one another.

"The World" is mad because they aren't, by and large, as good at it as the US is, and it pisses them off. Given that it is 100% predictable that this WILL piss people off, even if their petulance is obviously irrational, it is in fact an act of treachery to expose the operations of our intelligence community to the world at large, especially by someone employed in that very position.

Before wikileaks, or Snowden, did anyone really think that the all these countries were not spying on one another in all kinds of ways? Snowden didn't tell us anything we didn't already know, he just exposed the scale and effectiveness.

The only people who have a rational right to be pissed off are Americans, because the only thing revealed through all this that is possibly illegal and potentially unknown was the means by which the US is spying on it's own citizens, and said citizens do in fact have certain rights to not be spied upon. The Germans can bitch and moan, but there is nothing in the US Constitution that says "Thou shalt not spy on the Germans".

[CountDeMoney]

Appreciate the concession, no matter how bitterly given.

Eat me, shitburger.  Show me where I was wearing rose-colored glasses over the Cold War.

[crazy canuck]

They missed some outtakes.