Hearts of Iron IV

[Josquius]

Then why not start in February 1933?

I tend to agree with Valmy on this--if it's not supposed to be a WWII game, 1920 makes more sense as a starting year.

Then it'd be an economics simulator rather than a game of gearing up for then fighting a war.

[Josephus]

I think starting in 1936 is the only thing the game does well.

[DGuller]

I think starting in 1936 is the only thing the game does well.

I agree.  This is a WW2 game, so you can't be setting it up from 19 years earlier.  If you do that, you'll never even remotely get to the WW2 dynamics when the war breaks out.

[grumbler]

Concur on the 1936 start date.  Extending the game to 1956 is kinda fun; extending it to 1926 would be a disaster, because even the 1936 date would be unrecognizable unless the game had so much railroading that it was no longer fun to play.

[The Brain]

1936 is good. It's a start date that supports getting a WW2, but not the WW2.

[Valmy]

I think starting in 1936 is the only thing the game does well.

I agree.  This is a WW2 game, so you can't be setting it up from 19 years earlier.  If you do that, you'll never even remotely get to the WW2 dynamics when the war breaks out.

If it is a WW2 game then I agree. If it is not a WW2 game, but a grand strategy game sandbox in this era, then I do not.

I made my statement based on Paradox supposedly saying: "it's not a WW2 game. It's a Grand Strategy Sandbox that starts in 1936" that was in response to me wishing they would spend more time trying to make it a better WW2 game and not include stuff like recreating the Umayyad Caliphate or whatever.

[Valmy]

Concur on the 1936 start date.  Extending the game to 1956 is kinda fun; extending it to 1926 would be a disaster, because even the 1936 date would be unrecognizable unless the game had so much railroading that it was no longer fun to play.

It would certainly be a disaster for a WWII game. Not so much for a Grand Stategy Sandbox game though, it would actually lead to a much bigger variety of outcomes.

[grumbler]

It would certainly be a disaster for a WWII game. Not so much for a Grand Stategy Sandbox game though, it would actually lead to a much bigger variety of outcomes.

There is a difference between a grand strategy sandbox and a grand strategy fantasy, which your suggestion would be (unless the game were so much on rails that it wouldn't be any fun). 

Implementing your idea of having the largest variety of outcomes wouldn't be a bad thing, even more so if f it could, say, link to a Victoria II exported endgame and then just add the techs and change population, etc, because that would  give the greatest variety of outcomes.  But then it wouldn't be a WW2-era sandbox, any more than a 1919 start would be.  To create a world that is recognizable as the world in which WW2 was fought requires a resentful but resurgent Germany, at least three major factions, and at least one power that can lead the anti-Nazi or anti-Comintern factions as needed.  If Germany is taken over by the leftists in the 1920s, or the USSR by the right in the 1930s, a world recognizable as the world of WW2 will never be created.

There are mods that change start and end dates, and even offer the sorts of alt-hist outcomes you seems to want to see.  Kaiserreich gives you all the fantasy you could ask for.

[Josephus]

I made my statement based on Paradox supposedly saying: "it's not a WW2 game. It's a Grand Strategy Sandbox that starts in 1936" that was in response to me wishing they would spend more time trying to make it a better WW2 game and not include stuff like recreating the Umayyad Caliphate or whatever.

It is a WW2 game in as much as Inglorious Basterds is a WW2 movie. Fiction set in a WW2 setting

[Valmy]

There is a difference between a grand strategy sandbox and a grand strategy fantasy, which your suggestion would be (unless the game were so much on rails that it wouldn't be any fun).

1926 or 1920 ara fantasy years that did not exist in real life? Anyway it was not a suggestion, it was a statement of exasperation in reaction to what Josephus had posted. The fact that you usually get fantasy scenarios are why I have never been a big fan of the HoI series in general. I don't find it a very good simulation of WW2.

Implementing your idea of having the largest variety of outcomes wouldn't be a bad thing, even more so if f it could, say, link to a Victoria II exported endgame and then just add the techs and change population, etc, because that would  give the greatest variety of outcomes.  But then it wouldn't be a WW2-era sandbox, any more than a 1919 start would be.  To create a world that is recognizable as the world in which WW2 was fought requires a resentful but resurgent Germany, at least three major factions, and at least one power that can lead the anti-Nazi or anti-Comintern factions as needed.  If Germany is taken over by the leftists in the 1920s, or the USSR by the right in the 1930s, a world recognizable as the world of WW2 will never be created.

Sure. Those would be great possibilities for those wanting a Grand Strategy Sandbox game from this era. I mean if you want to see Al-Andalus reborn now you have another 15 years or so.

There are mods that change start and end dates, and even offer the sorts of alt-hist outcomes you seems to want to see.  Kaiserreich gives you all the fantasy you could ask for.

I don't want to see those outcomes which is why I was making that comment about the Al-Andalus stuff.

Which is why I like EU2 the best, it seemed to do a better job making the world around you seem a least a little like the real thing. The other paradox games go off the rails almost immediately once you start the game, which is kind of fun but not really a historical experience.

Well that and a EU2 game could be done in a relatively short period of time compared to the enormous time commitment a CK2 or EUIV game take.

But anyway it was just a reaction to the what Paradox supposedly said in Josephus' post about what the purpose of HoI was, not an actual suggestion.

[Valmy]

I made my statement based on Paradox supposedly saying: "it's not a WW2 game. It's a Grand Strategy Sandbox that starts in 1936" that was in response to me wishing they would spend more time trying to make it a better WW2 game and not include stuff like recreating the Umayyad Caliphate or whatever.

It is a WW2 game in as much as Inglorious Basterds is a WW2 movie. Fiction set in a WW2 setting

Pretty much.

[garbon]

[celedhring]

Paradox's obsession with the Byzantine Empire reaches World War II 

[garbon]

Meanwhile for Turkey:

[Syt]

That will make Erdogan fanboys quite happy, I assume.

(I feel whenever I check for HoI4 streams on Twitch there's always some Turks streaming. Tbf, I haven't looked in a while.)