Basic income

[Tamas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income


It is a relatively recent movement in Hungary, and with the governing party`s ever growing influence over the media, I don`t expect the movement to last long, especially since elections are held this April, and the major opposition party signalled interest in "supporting a national referendum about the concept".

Now, for me, the promise in such a basic income would be the elimination of all other welfare handouts, like social aid and unemployment aid, maternity payments etc, with the elimination of the bureaucracy involved in organizing the distribution of those.

Biggest risk in my opinion is that probably minimum wage would be only mildly over the basic income (otherwise you would just suffocate the economy with a too high minimum wage), and a lot of people would lack either the motivation, or the rational reason, to work. On the other hand of course, those people already have ample opportunities in most welfare societies to dodge work and get by.

So, discuss.

[alfred russel]

Why would you have a minimum wage if you have a basic income?

[Tamas]

Why would you have a minimum wage if you have a basic income?

good question

[alfred russel]

But if you do, it would seem that people would have incentive to work a minimum wage job. If minimum wage and basic income were both $15k, you could either do nothing and get $15k or work and get $30k.

Basic income would need to be kept very low, or else some people would decide sitting around playing video games was better than pursuing education and working. On the other hand that would create problems for families or people with disabilities without some other programs that could theoretically be eliminated with basic income.

[Zanza]

The social state should provide according to need, not just in general.

As Alfred says there will always be exceptions where the basic income isn't sufficient. Unless you set the basic income rather high, which is then a disincentive to work, you'll always need additional programs. Or you end up with a situation where you give basic income to people that could work but don't want to while at the same time not giving enough to the really needy.

The social state, just like taxes can either be fair or simple, not both.

[Razgovory]

Ecometrics!

[Grinning_Colossus]

It would simultaneously end the demand shortage and structural high unemployment. Seems like a good idea.

[Admiral Yi]

How would it end high unemployment?

[Grinning_Colossus]

A lot of people would be satisfied with their stipend and drop out of the labor market.

[Admiral Yi]

OK, but that seems to sort of miss the point.  Unless you're trying to win the international lowest unemployment competition.

[The Larch]

Wasn't Switzerland going to do something like that?

[crazy canuck]

Wasn't Switzerland going to do something like that?

Yeah, we had a thread about it.

[Tamas]

Wasn't Switzerland going to do something like that?

Yeah, we had a thread about it.

what happened to that?

[Admiral Yi]

The thread or the Swiss law?

I think they're still at the signature-gathering stage.

[crazy canuck]

Wasn't Switzerland going to do something like that?

Yeah, we had a thread about it.

what happened to that?

Yi said it wouldnt work.  Uttered something about econometrics and the thread died.


If you were asking about what the Swiss did, I am not sure anything came of it.