Adventures in Turkish Civilization Envy, Wanting to re-convert Hagia Sophia

[Queequeg]

Not of the copula.  And that's a pathetic excuse.  Why don't we cover up the Mona Lisa so the Louvre can be used as a Mosque?

That's a decision for the French.

Besides, the Hagia Sophia spent a huge amount of time as a mosque.  If there's a need for mosque space, it would only make sense for it to revert.

[Razgovory]

The French don't even allow space for mosques in mosques.

[Neil]

I don't think you're a troll.  I just think that the priorities of the the Turkish government are (and should be) different from your own priorities as a Byzanteen.

[grumbler]

Meh. Sell the art to Venice.

I think buildings turned into museums are always a bit sad. Better a living, changing place of worship (even one that charges for entry and does guided tours and ultimately changes the fabric of the building) than a frozen piece of art.

Disagree.  I think art is fine, and doesn't need to be changed.  Sometimes it is nice to see what people in another time considered high art, and not constantly be changing that art to keep up with modern sensibilities.

I don't think that churches are any more "living" than museums.  They may be more "changing," but, as I say, I don't think that change is good merely for the sake of change.

[Ed Anger]

First, I'd pave it over. Then I'd build a strip club on the site. Call it 'Turkish Delight' or something.

[CountDeMoney]

First, I'd pave it over. Then I'd build a strip club on the site. Call it 'Turkish Delight' or something.

Labia Sophia.

[Queequeg]

Hagia Sophia is the most famous building in Turkey.  Converting it in to a mosque and destroying the art is an affront to the world cultural heritage.  Also, Hagia Sophia has at least as much a cultural connection to the Orthodox world as it does to Turkey.  Turning what was for 1,000 years the center of their faith back in to a bastion of heathenry is clearly offensive.

[CountDeMoney]

Hagia Sophia is the most famous building in Turkey.  Converting it in to a mosque and destroying the art is an affront to the world cultural heritage.  Also, Hagia Sophia has at least as much a cultural connection to the Orthodox world as it does to Turkey.  Turning what was for 1,000 years the center of their faith back in to a bastion of heathenry is clearly offensive.

You also think mountain dirt farmers in former Soviet Republics are the hottest chicks on the planet, so let's not start talking affronts and whatnot, mmmkay?

[Ed Anger]

First, I'd pave it over. Then I'd build a strip club on the site. Call it 'Turkish Delight' or something.

Labia Sophia.

[Sheilbh]

I don't agree with that at all.  The Ottomans and Republican Turks have hated that it was more impressive than any Mosque in Istanbul, or anywhere in the world, ever.   They've never properly maintained the original artistic vision of the Byzantines, and their aesthetic "contributions" mostly amount to blocking mosaics and frescoes.

I think it's a bit ask for anyone to give a shit about maintaining a Medieval artistic vision beyond preserving and conserving what was achieved in that period. Aside from that buildings change and adapt, even if it's not to our taste. Personally I prefer that to either freezing a building or a restoration that could never be more than pastiche.

I like Coventry Cathedral and modernist pietas among 17th century frescoes. I think buildings are improved when they are palimpsests . Each generation leaving their own cares and priorities somehow on the building - obviously I'm far less keen on neglect or destruction but even those worst case situations aren't irredeemable.

[Sheilbh]

I don't think that churches are any more "living" than museums.  They may be more "changing," but, as I say, I don't think that change is good merely for the sake of change.

I'd make a distinction between buildings built as museums which can live as much as anything else and buildings - whether places of worship, or castles, or whatever else - that are turned into museums. They're either reverentially frozen or just a theme park, I think a Byzantine Hagia Sofia would be firmly in the latter. They can still be interesting but I always think it's a bit sad.

[Razgovory]

I was a palimpset once, and nobody lavish care and attention on me.

[Queequeg]

I think it's a bit ask for anyone to give a shit about maintaining a Medieval artistic vision beyond preserving and conserving what was achieved in that period. Aside from that buildings change and adapt, even if it's not to our taste. Personally I prefer that to either freezing a building or a restoration that could never be more than pastiche.

I like Coventry Cathedral and modernist pietas among 17th century frescoes. I think buildings are improved when they are palimpsests . Each generation leaving their own cares and priorities somehow on the building - obviously I'm far less keen on neglect or destruction but even those worst case situations aren't irredeemable.

That's mostly bullshit.  Thomas Whittmore and the Byzantine Institute of America's restorations of the original Byzantine mosaics in Hagia Sophia and the frescoes in Chora Church have VASTLY improved both buildings, and added greatly to our understanding and appreciation of Byzantine art.  You're not going to convince many people that the wold-famous mosaic of Christ Pantocrator or the frescoes of the Parecclesion would have been better off as a plastered ceiling. 

[garbon]

Not of the copula.  And that's a pathetic excuse.  Why don't we cover up the Mona Lisa so the Louvre can be used as a Mosque? 

The Mona Lisa is just one tiny painting in that museum.

[dps]

I have... ...friends   

Yeah, right.