EU3 Modification Question

[garbon]

I think the problem stems from the game's inability to really portray internal strife. Sure there are improved rebels in this game, but it doesn't replicate how torn apart France was during the 16th century. That also comes back to the colonial issue--France wasn't going to be focusing thousands of guys on overseas missions during the timeperiod.

A hard part about that though is figuring out who the player is to represent. After all, if you were to strictly be the monarch, it might get rather tedious to jump through all the necessary hoops to get your will enacted.

[alfred russel]

I think the problem stems from the game's inability to really portray internal strife. Sure there are improved rebels in this game, but it doesn't replicate how torn apart France was during the 16th century. That also comes back to the colonial issue--France wasn't going to be focusing thousands of guys on overseas missions during the timeperiod.

A hard part about that though is figuring out who the player is to represent. After all, if you were to strictly be the monarch, it might get rather tedious to jump through all the necessary hoops to get your will enacted.

I agree--the game isn't really set up to handle civil wars, it is more focused on international affairs.

But a problem emerges when you take a country such as France that was torn apart internally, don't replicate that, and then give them the relative internal economic advantages they had in the 18th century. Suddenly they appear to be an unstoppable European and colonial power when in actuality they were in the middle of a civil war.

[Queequeg]

And my point was about the Muscovite Russians being just as brutal uneducated savages as the nomads so there was no big cultural difference, only technological, which is easy to port.

The Kazan Khanate was an agricultural, centralized state that drew upon a mixed Turkic-Iranian-Muslim heritage, with a literate upper class, advanced metallurgy, relatively centralized government and really pretty advanced.  They weren't Sky worshiping cow's blood drinkers, like the ancient Magyars; they were settled and cultured.  The "steppe" really only starts east and south of Kazan, and then I think you might have a point, but even then the Steppe peoples of the period would not have struck a modern as substantially more advanced than the average, say, Swede or anything.   

I find it a little funny that a Hungarian thinks that the only difference between a "Russian" and a "savage" of the period was that the Russians had guns.  Does this mean that the Hungarians, a few steps (pun!) removed from savagery themselves, were too stupid to fight off the Turks, unlike the Russians?

[Queequeg]

Alfred; whenever a nation starts getting too powerful, just get it in a war against a power of vaguely similar potence, and start with the Spies; puppet army council, cause social chaos, etc....it'll work eventually, especially if they have a weak monarch.  Go into the save file, remove luck, maybe tone down the current monarch's stats, get them into a war with Poland and watch the fireworks. 

[Barrister]

Oh by the way - how the hell do you use spies?

I can't seem to find the interface anywhere...

[Queequeg]

Oh by the way - how the hell do you use spies?

I can't seem to find the interface anywhere...

IIRC it is at the bottom, slightly right of center.  Have to have the province (or at least country) highlighted; so if I wanted to destabilize the Ottoman Empire, I might have Athens highlighted, and from there I can do a province specific action (support local revolt) or a nationwide one (cause social chaos).

It is a lot more useful if you have Espionage national idea or a good spymaster.  Not a whole lot of people use it effectively, but it can, in the right circumstances, mean the difference between a four year campaign and a decade long slaughterfeast.   

[alfred russel]

Spellus, I was reviewing the map of my game--1655--and Russia is out of control. Highest techs, has almost colonized to the pacific ocean,has moved into the Middle East, Persia, and even Pakistan (India and the Ming seem to be in trouble). Right now I have the second highest income, and they are more than twice mine.

a) Are you sure this is rare?
b) Is there any way for me to break them up? As England, my manpower is about a tenth of theirs, so a land war that doesn't involve a grand alliance is probably out of the question. Their stability costs are probably through the roof, if I use all my spies destabilizing them for the next 100 years, would that have a possible effect? Right now the cost to do that is 100, and the chance of success is 30%. I'd hate to do that and then have them launch a counter spy campaign against me.

[Tamas]

I have not seen a huge-ass Russia like that. Ever.

[DisturbedPervert]

Spellus, I was reviewing the map of my game--1655--and Russia is out of control. Highest techs, has almost colonized to the pacific ocean,has moved into the Middle East, Persia, and even Pakistan (India and the Ming seem to be in trouble).

Jesus, you're gonna turn pants in to dairy factories with that kind of talk.

[saskganesh]

  Does this mean that the Hungarians, a few steps (pun!) removed from savagery themselves, were too stupid to fight off the Turks, unlike the Russians?

this was a rhetorical question, right?

[Tamas]

And my point was about the Muscovite Russians being just as brutal uneducated savages as the nomads so there was no big cultural difference, only technological, which is easy to port.

The Kazan Khanate was an agricultural, centralized state that drew upon a mixed Turkic-Iranian-Muslim heritage, with a literate upper class, advanced metallurgy, relatively centralized government and really pretty advanced.  They weren't Sky worshiping cow's blood drinkers, like the ancient Magyars; they were settled and cultured.  The "steppe" really only starts east and south of Kazan, and then I think you might have a point, but even then the Steppe peoples of the period would not have struck a modern as substantially more advanced than the average, say, Swede or anything.   

I find it a little funny that a Hungarian thinks that the only difference between a "Russian" and a "savage" of the period was that the Russians had guns.  Does this mean that the Hungarians, a few steps (pun!) removed from savagery themselves, were too stupid to fight off the Turks, unlike the Russians?

Oh FFS sure the sun was shinging from Kazan asses. And Hungarians, coming from that region, adopted more western culture by the time of EU3's start date, than those assorted remaining people there ever did until present day.

[Tamas]

I find it a little funny that a Hungarian thinks that the only difference between a "Russian" and a "savage" of the period was that the Russians had guns.  Does this mean that the Hungarians, a few steps (pun!) removed from savagery themselves, were too stupid to fight off the Turks, unlike the Russians?

No, I think it was something to do with the ragtag union of slavs and mongols called  "Russia" sporting a much bigger population.

[Barrister]

I'm getting a little irritated in my Scotland game.  As mentioned I wanted to weaken England and keep her as "little England", with Ireland, Wales, and Cornwall all free (plus have her lose her continental possessions).  After about 3 wars I've largely done that.

But England keeps DOWing as soon as truces are up.  Not usually on me, but on the British minors I've guaranteed.  So I keep having to spank England, which is at significant cost to me.

Maybe I need to swallow up even more of the place (don't want to do that for RP purposes)?  Maybe I just need to force-vassalize (that could be tough though - so far no way to reach Meath due to the English Navy)?  Or maybe I should take provinces then sell to Wales/Cornwall?

[Queequeg]

Spellus, I was reviewing the map of my game--1655--and Russia is out of control. Highest techs, has almost colonized to the pacific ocean,has moved into the Middle East, Persia, and even Pakistan (India and the Ming seem to be in trouble). Right now I have the second highest income, and they are more than twice mine.

a) Are you sure this is rare?
b) Is there any way for me to break them up? As England, my manpower is about a tenth of theirs, so a land war that doesn't involve a grand alliance is probably out of the question. Their stability costs are probably through the roof, if I use all my spies destabilizing them for the next 100 years, would that have a possible effect? Right now the cost to do that is 100, and the chance of success is 30%. I'd hate to do that and then have them launch a counter spy campaign against me.

That sounds like a tough nut to crack.  I know that as a player I don't think I've ever expanded that much as Russia, as after a certain point all it does is add cost to stability. 

I think that if you could find some kind of coalition of countries able to tie it down, if not outright win, a war against them, then I think there's really not a whole lot you can do other then try to be friends with it.  I bet that if you were to go into the save file, give them a shitty monarch (which would have been bound to happen, anyway), and keep hitting away at their stability while in a war, their manpower will eventually go down (VERY IMPORTANT) and they might-might- have to deal with huge national rebellions especially in Heathen areas. 

That said, I don't really know, I've never seen anything like that happen in Vanilla as I almost always play MMP, where I've never seen Russia grow to its natural size starting at 1453, let alone become Orwell's Eurasia.  IIRC, in Vanilla province specific cause rebellions are more useful, but you probably don't have enough spies to make that effective.

Shame about the spy efficiency; Russia often chooses the Espionage national idea, and if they choose Internal Security you are profoundly screwed.  If not, then get a good spymaster and/or Espionage, and go nuts when Russia has a bad monarch.   


You might want to consider upgrading to MMP in any case Alfred, its just a better experience on the whole.  There are Jews! 

EDIT: I've never seen Russia get anywhere close to being that big, the most I think I've ever seen is the annexation of Poland and maybe a tiny bit more of the Ottoman sphere.  The only country I'm accustomed to seeing go nuclear (besides France, Austria and Poland) is Ming, which usually expands pretty quickly into South-East Asia.  Thailand (or whatever the contemporary equivalent was, Ayyahua or something weird) often expands into Malacca, but that's not that impossible. 

No, I think it was something to do with the ragtag union of slavs and mongols called  "Russia" sporting a much bigger population.

Ragtag union of Mongols and Slavs?  Who  does that remind me of again?  Hmmmm?

Oh FFS sure the sun was shinging from Kazan asses. And Hungarians, coming from that region, adopted more western culture by the time of EU3's start date, than those assorted remaining people there ever did until present day.

This was when the height of Western Culture outside of Italy meant being able to quote Aristotle's opinions on theology.  I don't see your point, and it is a fair bet that Russian and contemporary Magyar rates of education were similar, as Russia already had a pretty strong vernacular (and Slavonic, near vernacular) language in fairly common usage, though the Mongols and rise of Muscovy were very detrimental to Russia's literacy rates.

[alfred russel]

Spellus, I was reviewing the map of my game--1655--and Russia is out of control. Highest techs, has almost colonized to the pacific ocean,has moved into the Middle East, Persia, and even Pakistan (India and the Ming seem to be in trouble). Right now I have the second highest income, and they are more than twice mine.

a) Are you sure this is rare?
b) Is there any way for me to break them up? As England, my manpower is about a tenth of theirs, so a land war that doesn't involve a grand alliance is probably out of the question. Their stability costs are probably through the roof, if I use all my spies destabilizing them for the next 100 years, would that have a possible effect? Right now the cost to do that is 100, and the chance of success is 30%. I'd hate to do that and then have them launch a counter spy campaign against me.

That sounds like a tough nut to crack.  I know that as a player I don't think I've ever expanded that much as Russia, as after a certain point all it does is add cost to stability. 

I think that if you could find some kind of coalition of countries able to tie it down, if not outright win, a war against them, then I think there's really not a whole lot you can do other then try to be friends with it.  I bet that if you were to go into the save file, give them a shitty monarch (which would have been bound to happen, anyway), and keep hitting away at their stability while in a war, their manpower will eventually go down (VERY IMPORTANT) and they might-might- have to deal with huge national rebellions especially in Heathen areas. 

That said, I don't really know, I've never seen anything like that happen in Vanilla as I almost always play MMP, where I've never seen Russia grow to its natural size starting at 1453, let alone become Orwell's Eurasia.  IIRC, in Vanilla province specific cause rebellions are more useful, but you probably don't have enough spies to make that effective.

Shame about the spy efficiency; Russia often chooses the Espionage national idea, and if they choose Internal Security you are profoundly screwed.  If not, then get a good spymaster and/or Espionage, and go nuts when Russia has a bad monarch.   


You might want to consider upgrading to MMP in any case Alfred, its just a better experience on the whole.  There are Jews! 

EDIT: I've never seen Russia get anywhere close to being that big, the most I think I've ever seen is the annexation of Poland and maybe a tiny bit more of the Ottoman sphere.  The only country I'm accustomed to seeing go nuclear (besides France, Austria and Poland) is Ming, which usually expands pretty quickly into South-East Asia.  Thailand (or whatever the contemporary equivalent was, Ayyahua or something weird) often expands into Malacca, but that's not that impossible. 

On the Paradox board someone mentioned it is probably a result of my start date. 1493 is a date that the golden horde has collapsed, making AI mega russia possible.

What do you think would happen if I just use spies to lower their stability over a period of time? Since they can't attack me, would they respond with espionage as well?