Ukraine's European Revolution?

[The Brain]

Yes, a land war in Asia. Good luck with that, Putin.

[Syt]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/21/world/europe/ukraine.html

[...]

"We have information that Russia has redeployed significant military forces to its border with Ukraine," a senior Obama administration official told reporters on Friday. "Russian Special Forces are also maintaining points along the Ukrainian border to provide support to separatist fighters."

The State Department reported last week that three aging Russian T-64 tanks had been sent to Ukraine, and Ukrainian officials recently told Western officials that 10 more Russian tanks have been provided to Ukrainian separatists. Adding to Western concerns, the senior Obama administration official said, artillery has been moved to a deployment site inside southwest Russia and may soon be shipped across the border.

American officials said Russia was providing older weapons that its forces had phased out but that were known to remain in the Ukrainian military's inventory.

"The desire here is to mask the Russian hand" by allowing Ukrainian separatists to claim the weapons were captured on the battlefield, the administration official said. The official asked not to be identified by name, in line with the Obama administration's protocol for briefing reporters.

Mr. Putin appears to be calculating that he can continue to provide military support to the separatists without triggering tough economic reprisals as long as the Kremlin denies that it is involved and avoids obvious provocations, like sending conventional Russian military units into eastern Ukraine, American officials said.

[...]

[derspiess]

  You can probably buy those T-64s in most hardware/outdoors shops in eastern Ukraine.

[Razgovory]

  You can probably buy those T-64s in most hardware/outdoors shops in eastern Ukraine.

T-55, T-62, T-64, T-72, T-80, T-90 they all end up burning wreckage in the end.

[derspiess]

They do burn quite well.  T-34s are still kicking in parts of the world, though. 

[The Brain]

Superior armor.

[derspiess]

Yep. 

[DGuller]

A lot of Russians that are not intimately familiar with history are offended by the notion that Germans had tanks that could crush T-34s.  "Nonsense!  Even American historians say that T-34 was the best tank of the war."   

[Razgovory]

I imagine that the T-34 was most destroyed tank in the war.  They suffered severe losses.

[derspiess]

Only because they didn't bolt on the rubber armor.  Thankfully the Serbs figured that out by the 90s (see above pic).

[Admiral Yi]

That's a lot of track suits sacrificed. 

[Viking]

A lot of Russians that are not intimately familiar with history are offended by the notion that Germans had tanks that could crush T-34s.  "Nonsense!  Even American historians say that T-34 was the best tank of the war."   

There is a subtle difference between being the "best tank to win the war", "best tank to win the battle", "best tank to win the fight" and "best tank to keep the tank crew alive". It certainly was the best tank to win the war, it was almost certainly also the best tank to win the battle. The last two categories, not as much.

[Razgovory]

I'm not certain the T-34 was the best tank to win the war.  The US produced nearly as many Shermans and weren't taking the kind of loses the Soviets were.  And the Shermans were more versatile, for instance they could be landed on beaches.  Also they had radios, which is really important.

[Viking]

I'm not certain the T-34 was the best tank to win the war.  The US produced nearly as many Shermans and weren't taking the kind of loses the Soviets were.  And the Shermans were more versatile, for instance they could be landed on beaches.  Also they had radios, which is really important.

Stand in a flat field with Tigers and Panthers on the other end of it.. see how much you like the sherman then.

[Queequeg]

Yeah.  I really think of the Sherman as more of a light tank or traditional medium tank than a proto-MBT like the T-34 or the Panther.