Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Solmyr]

Hey guys, I heard that Right Sector dude got whacked.  Anybody got an article or  link to post?

First time I hear about that. Hope somebody posts an article.

http://lenta.ru/articles/2014/03/25/beliy/

You know, I'd love to understand that article to see the spin they put on it, since Russia has been accusing the Ukranian government of being in the pocket of Right Sector so they could pogrom all the Russians in the east.

Lenta.ru has usually been quite fair in its coverage, though that may change now. The previous chief editor was fired a couple of weeks ago over an interview she did with a Right Sector member, and her replacement is pro-Kremlin.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2014/03/vladimir-putin-press-censorship-galina-timchenko.html

[derspiess]

Still think the Tatars have nothing to fear in Crimea, Queenqueg?

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-37-russian-troops-on-the-move/

1545 GMT: The Interpreter's managing editor has interviewed Ayla Bakkalli, the U.S. representative for the Crimean Tatar Mejlis. Bakkalli warns that Russia has already taken steps tp isolate Crimea's Tatar population, and that an even worse fate could soon unfurl. But will Tatar's face the "Chechnya scenario"?
Already, the pro-Russian camp has made ominous moves, prompting sympathetic European countries such as Lithuania to prepare for another Tatar refugee crisis. About 20 people have been kidnapped in Crimea since Russia invaded. Three are still missing, including Ivan Selentsov, a Tatar. Another Tatar activist, Reshat Ametov, was discovered murdered in a forest after last being seen in the hands of a pro-Russian militia. Dzhalil Ibrahimov told the Guardian that these militias "have started to burn fires near the village at night, so we know they are there and they are close." Then, on March 20, a tocsin for Tatar ethnic cleansing was rung by none other than Rustam Termigaliyev: "We have asked the Crimean Tatars to vacate part of their land, which is required for social needs," the Crimean vice premier said. "But we are ready to allocate and legalize many other plots of land to ensure a normal life for the Crimean Tatars."

A normal life, or "normalization" in the Soviet sense? Either way, Bakkalli is terrified. "Another genocide has started already," she said. "The groundwork has been laid. They're grabbing land, they're expelling people, and they painting Xs on the homes of the Tatars to mark them out as fifth columnists. Do you understand how chilling that is for us?"

There are reports that Tatar men are relocating their families abroad and returning to the peninsula solo. I ask Bakkalli whether this suggests that they intend to take up arms and fight back, perhaps forming their own self-defense militias. "That is correct," she replies. "They're worried about their parents, their grandparents, their wives, and their children. They feel much more mobility and freedom when they're by themselves. And they will not let Crimea go." The Kurultay is going to "recalibrate" in the coming weeks, Bakkalli says, and determine its response to Russia's seizure.

[celedhring]

Hey guys, I heard that Right Sector dude got whacked.  Anybody got an article or  link to post?

First time I hear about that. Hope somebody posts an article.

http://lenta.ru/articles/2014/03/25/beliy/

You know, I'd love to understand that article to see the spin they put on it, since Russia has been accusing the Ukranian government of being in the pocket of Right Sector so they could pogrom all the Russians in the east.

Lenta.ru has usually been quite fair in its coverage, though that may change now. The previous chief editor was fired a couple of weeks ago over an interview she did with a Right Sector member, and her replacement is pro-Kremlin.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2014/03/vladimir-putin-press-censorship-galina-timchenko.html

The translation that derspiess provided looks pretty balanced actually. Reports on the known facts or suspected facts, gives sources, attempts to describe the whole situation, no spin that I can find.

[Tamas]

Still think the Tatars have nothing to fear in Crimea, Queenqueg?

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-37-russian-troops-on-the-move/

1545 GMT: The Interpreter's managing editor has interviewed Ayla Bakkalli, the U.S. representative for the Crimean Tatar Mejlis. Bakkalli warns that Russia has already taken steps tp isolate Crimea's Tatar population, and that an even worse fate could soon unfurl. But will Tatar's face the "Chechnya scenario"?
Already, the pro-Russian camp has made ominous moves, prompting sympathetic European countries such as Lithuania to prepare for another Tatar refugee crisis. About 20 people have been kidnapped in Crimea since Russia invaded. Three are still missing, including Ivan Selentsov, a Tatar. Another Tatar activist, Reshat Ametov, was discovered murdered in a forest after last being seen in the hands of a pro-Russian militia. Dzhalil Ibrahimov told the Guardian that these militias "have started to burn fires near the village at night, so we know they are there and they are close." Then, on March 20, a tocsin for Tatar ethnic cleansing was rung by none other than Rustam Termigaliyev: "We have asked the Crimean Tatars to vacate part of their land, which is required for social needs," the Crimean vice premier said. "But we are ready to allocate and legalize many other plots of land to ensure a normal life for the Crimean Tatars."

A normal life, or "normalization" in the Soviet sense? Either way, Bakkalli is terrified. "Another genocide has started already," she said. "The groundwork has been laid. They're grabbing land, they're expelling people, and they painting Xs on the homes of the Tatars to mark them out as fifth columnists. Do you understand how chilling that is for us?"

There are reports that Tatar men are relocating their families abroad and returning to the peninsula solo. I ask Bakkalli whether this suggests that they intend to take up arms and fight back, perhaps forming their own self-defense militias. "That is correct," she replies. "They're worried about their parents, their grandparents, their wives, and their children. They feel much more mobility and freedom when they're by themselves. And they will not let Crimea go." The Kurultay is going to "recalibrate" in the coming weeks, Bakkalli says, and determine its response to Russia's seizure.

It's ok. Those lands could never be turned into Krakow.

[Syt]

Still think the Tatars have nothing to fear in Crimea, Queenqueg?

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-37-russian-troops-on-the-move/

1545 GMT: The Interpreter's managing editor has interviewed Ayla Bakkalli, the U.S. representative for the Crimean Tatar Mejlis. Bakkalli warns that Russia has already taken steps tp isolate Crimea's Tatar population, and that an even worse fate could soon unfurl. But will Tatar's face the "Chechnya scenario"?
Already, the pro-Russian camp has made ominous moves, prompting sympathetic European countries such as Lithuania to prepare for another Tatar refugee crisis. About 20 people have been kidnapped in Crimea since Russia invaded. Three are still missing, including Ivan Selentsov, a Tatar. Another Tatar activist, Reshat Ametov, was discovered murdered in a forest after last being seen in the hands of a pro-Russian militia. Dzhalil Ibrahimov told the Guardian that these militias "have started to burn fires near the village at night, so we know they are there and they are close." Then, on March 20, a tocsin for Tatar ethnic cleansing was rung by none other than Rustam Termigaliyev: "We have asked the Crimean Tatars to vacate part of their land, which is required for social needs," the Crimean vice premier said. "But we are ready to allocate and legalize many other plots of land to ensure a normal life for the Crimean Tatars."

A normal life, or "normalization" in the Soviet sense? Either way, Bakkalli is terrified. "Another genocide has started already," she said. "The groundwork has been laid. They're grabbing land, they're expelling people, and they painting Xs on the homes of the Tatars to mark them out as fifth columnists. Do you understand how chilling that is for us?"

There are reports that Tatar men are relocating their families abroad and returning to the peninsula solo. I ask Bakkalli whether this suggests that they intend to take up arms and fight back, perhaps forming their own self-defense militias. "That is correct," she replies. "They're worried about their parents, their grandparents, their wives, and their children. They feel much more mobility and freedom when they're by themselves. And they will not let Crimea go." The Kurultay is going to "recalibrate" in the coming weeks, Bakkalli says, and determine its response to Russia's seizure.

Dude, that's been posted like ten pages ago. I think Spellus even commented on it.

[derspiess]

Dude, that's been posted like ten pages ago. I think Spellus even commented on it.

This is an update.  And whatever comments he had were insufficient.

[Queequeg]

Well I don't really know what is going to happen with the Crimean Tatars.  It's a weird, complicated situation that I don't know a whole lot about.  Ethnic relations between Russians and eastern Tatars are generally okay, though as mentioned previously in the thread the Crimeans were targeted by Stalin just like the Chechens and certain other questionable minorities. 

I think the possibility of pressure from Turkey will eventually help to make sure that there isn't any kind of large-scale pogrom, though it is entirely likely that the Russian takeover is allowing for previously suppressed Russian ethnic chauvinism to rear its ugly head.

[derspiess]

Well I don't really know what is going to happen with the Crimean Tatars.  It's a weird, complicated situation that I don't know a whole lot about.

When a small ethnic minority in that part of the world expresses a lot of fear, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Ethnic relations between Russians and eastern Tatars are generally okay,

That seems to be changing.  Can't find the article right now, but I read something that indicated non-Crimean Tatars were pretty dissatisfied, and that pre-dated the Crimea referendum.

[Queequeg]

When a small ethnic minority in that part of the world expresses a lot of fear, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Serbs in Kosovo?  They live with pogroms and mass Church burnngs every few years but the West doesn't do much.  It is worth remembering that this is Eastern Europe.  Everyone suspects everyone else of trying to commit some kind of genocide somewhere. 

That seems to be changing.  Can't find the article right now, but I read something that indicated non-Crimean Tatars were pretty dissatisfied, and that pre-dated the Crimea referendum.

Link?

[Razgovory]

When a small ethnic minority in that part of the world expresses a lot of fear, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Shame you don't do the same for them over here.

[Neil]

If ever there was a people who deserved genocide, the Serbs would be it.

[derspiess]

Serbs in Kosovo?  They live with pogroms and mass Church burnngs every few years but the West doesn't do much.  It is worth remembering that this is Eastern Europe.

Sure, why not.

Everyone suspects everyone else of trying to commit some kind of genocide somewhere.

With some justification.

Link?

I SAID I CAN'T FIND THE ARTICLE RIGHT NOW.  But I'll post it if I can find it

[derspiess]

Shame you don't do the same for them over here.

[Habbaku]

Shame you don't do the same for them over here.

Raz gonna Raz.

[Razgovory]

Shame you don't do the same for them over here.

Don't roll your eyes at me.  I'm skeptical of you and Tamas' new found concern over the fate of Muslims.