Ukraine's European Revolution?

[alfred russel]

My proposed solution:

Ukraine agrees to give the Crimea, all of it to Russia.

Ukraine joins NATO.

That is even worse than sending a carrier into the Black Sea. No way Ukraine gets into NATO.

[Berkut]

My proposed solution:

Ukraine agrees to give the Crimea, all of it to Russia.

Ukraine joins NATO.

That is even worse than sending a carrier into the Black Sea. No way Ukraine gets into NATO.

OK, how about we give a CVBG to Russia, and the Crimea joins NATO?

[Jacob]

NYT reports that pro-Russian demonstrations in East Ukraine are partially fueled by Russian citizens crossing the border for "protest tourism". Allegedly they arrive by the busload.

Yeah, I've seen a bunch of those allegations on social media for the last few days.

Why wouldn't Ukraine seal the border?

I don't think the new government ever had control over those borders.

[alfred russel]

OK, how about we give a CVBG to Russia, and the Crimea joins NATO?

I think those are both bad ideas.

Russia is a belligerent state run by an asshole. Giving them advanced weapons systems is a bad idea.

The Crimea isn't a country. It is a small piece of the Ukraine, currently occupied by Russia. Its population appears unlikely to welcome NATO membership and it fails to meet several key criteria for NATO membership. Also, the current status of the Crimea as being occupied by Russia means that the ascension of the Crimea to NATO would immediately trigger article 5 and result in war between the US and Russia.

[Berkut]

OK, how about we give a CVBG to Russia, and the Crimea joins NATO?

I think those are both bad ideas.

Russia is a belligerent state run by an asshole. Giving them advanced weapons systems is a bad idea.

The Crimea isn't a country. It is a small piece of the Ukraine, currently occupied by Russia. Its population appears unlikely to welcome NATO membership and it fails to meet several key criteria for NATO membership. Also, the current status of the Crimea as being occupied by Russia means that the ascension of the Crimea to NATO would immediately trigger article 5 and result in war between the US and Russia.

Hmmm. That would make giving them a CVBG an even worse idea.

I might have to revisit this plan.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Drop de CVBG from orbit on Moscow. Putin gets his ships, Moscow gets it. problem solved

[Syt]

So, lessons learned for Putin:

- in the middle of a crisis he can hold a major military exercise on the borders of the country
- can occupy a neighboring province and install a puppet regime while playing "I'm not touching you" with the local military

And the results will be pissing of pants (Eastern Europe), stern letters (Western Europe) and mildly uncomfortable sanctions (USA).

I'm sure this will inform his future actions.

That said, the comment from a German article trying to explain the Russian perspective:
'From a Russian perspective ... the West is acting cynically and and guided by self interest; democracy and human rights are only fig leaves in order to reach geopolitical and economic goals. Cited examples are the wars in Iraq and Kosovo.'

Is probably true  that Russian thinking (and that of at least a large part of the posting online community on German language new sites) is: the West and especially America does this all the time without fear of sanctions under flimsy pretenses, so why can't we?

[Syt]

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/721901

Russia's North Caucasus republic sends humanitarian aid to Crimea

MAKHACHKALA, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Dagestan, a republic in Russia's North Caucasus, sends a road train with humanitarian aid to Ukraine's Crimea, where it is expected to arrive by March 8.

"The people of Dagestan must come to the rescue of Crimean residents, who have found themselves in a blockade for defending their freedom, their right for democracy," Dagestan's Deputy Prime Minister Abusupyan Kharkharov said at a government session on Tuesday.

The session made the decision to send foodstuffs of long-term storage and money to the Crimea , the press service and information department of the republican administration told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

A bank account will be opened in Dagestan, where local residents can transfer money to help the Crimea, the deputy prime minister said, adding that civil servants of the republic would transfer their one-day salaries to the bank account.

[Zanza]

I am not sure if you can equate the posts in the forums of some media sites with public opinion. These people are usually very opinionated and often have fairly extreme positions. I would assume that most Germans don't give a fuck and don't really have any opinion about this at all. Which is also telling, but telling a slightly different story.

[jimmy olsen]

Folks at something awful were watching this live. It looked tense, but apparently they declined to massacre unarmed soldiers on live tv, and are waiting for a time they can do it without anyone watching so they can plant weapons on them and claim they were attacking. Ballsy as fuck.

[Syt]

Gazprom confirms receipt of payment from Ukraine, cancels Ukrainian special discount as of April. Medvedev orders finance ministry to consider a $2-3 billion loan to Ukraine.

(all ITAR-TASS)

[Tamas]

Putin is on TV. He mentions how Ukrainian radicals tortured IT people.

As if that is a bad thing.

[Tamas]

Surprisingly, it appears he spent some time lashing out against oligarchs not just in Ukraine but Russia too, including Roman Abramovich. Nuke the bastard. 

Seriously though, is that a hint of him doing more power-concentrating in Russia in the future? More botox = more gusto?

[Liep]

I'm starting to think Merkel was right.. he doesn't really seem to be in contact with any form of reality.

[Monoriu]

I'm starting to think Merkel was right.. he doesn't really seem to be in contact with any form of reality.

I am not so sure about that.  Nobody seems to have good ideas on how to get the Russian troops out.  It seems to me that Putin is winning.