Ukraine's European Revolution?

[derspiess]

When the Crimea breaks off it is going to set a precedent.  If the reforms actually get through and Eastern Ukrainian industry dies while the West starts to get some investment we will be looking at an actual breakup in another 9 years. 

If that happens, then so be it.  Ukraine doesn't appear to be governable in its current form.

[Neil]

We joke about appeasement, but to be honest I prefer that over a NATO vs. Russia shooting match. That's like one bad move from nuclear holocaust, and I am not ready to see civilization crumble because of Ukraine.

That said "let's partition Ukraine" and other comments sound very much like what happened in the 30s, indeed.

What are you talking about?  Civilization is already long gone.

[Barrister]

When the Crimea breaks off it is going to set a precedent.  If the reforms actually get through and Eastern Ukrainian industry dies while the West starts to get some investment we will be looking at an actual breakup in another 9 years. 

If that happens, then so be it.  Ukraine doesn't appear to be governable in its current form.

The only thing making Ukraine "ungovernable" is the presence of Russian troops in Crimea.  Every other part of the country appears to be going remarkably well given the circumstances.

[Admiral Yi]

The only thing making Ukraine "ungovernable" is the presence of Russian troops in Crimea.  Every other part of the country appears to be going remarkably well given the circumstances.

We've had virtually no reporting (actually, maybe zero reporting) on the sentiments of eastern Ukrainians.

[alfred russel]

The only thing making Ukraine "ungovernable" is the presence of Russian troops in Crimea.  Every other part of the country appears to be going remarkably well given the circumstances.

Lets not overstate things. The Ukraine is really poor. It is not especially stable. It is corrupt. The past few months it has been somewhat paralyzed by massive protests.

[Queequeg]

The only thing making Ukraine "ungovernable" is the presence of Russian troops in Crimea.  Every other part of the country appears to be going remarkably well given the circumstances.

I don't know what you'd call "having a massive Western-friendly revolution every 10 years that overturns all of the established government only to have increasingly Moscow-friendly Plutocrats democratically elected until another massive Western-friendly revolution", but "ungovernable" seems as accurate as any descriptor. 

[The Brain]

Cronkite says that the war is now ungovernable.

[Barrister]

The only thing making Ukraine "ungovernable" is the presence of Russian troops in Crimea.  Every other part of the country appears to be going remarkably well given the circumstances.

I don't know what you'd call "having a massive Western-friendly revolution every 10 years that overturns all of the established government only to have increasingly Moscow-friendly Plutocrats democratically elected until another massive Western-friendly revolution", but "ungovernable" seems as accurate as any descriptor.

Other than the Baltics, none of the former states of the USSR have had a very good time of the last 25 years.  Ukraine is probably doing the second best in terms of developing a functioning democracy and civil society.

You can't just look at the riots in the street and say "this country can't function".  That kind of analysis leaves you with the impression that Belorussia is fine, which it clearly isn't.

[Queequeg]

Georgia is actually doing okay-ish.  Armenia has to deal with the fact that it can't trade with either of the countries on it's border, both of whom want it's entire population dead.  The Baltics are great.  Who expected much from Central Asia? 

[Razgovory]

It doesn't seem to be ungovernable, I mean, it's not like they are engaging in ethnic cleansing.  And let's be clear, Russia would take the whole eastern half of the country, not just the Crimea.  Maybe the whole country if they thought they could get away with it.

[Barrister]

Georgia is actually doing okay-ish.  Armenia has to deal with the fact that it can't trade with either of the countries on it's border, both of whom want it's entire population dead.  The Baltics are great.  Who expected much from Central Asia?

Georgia was the country I was thinking of when I said Ukraine was 2nd best.

[Valmy]

Armenia has to deal with the fact that it can't trade with either of the countries on it's border, both of whom want it's entire population dead.

Well fortunately the benevolent nations of Iran and Georgia also border Armenia.

[Syt]

Austrian paper Die Presse quotes Russian agency Ria Novosti that the Russian parliament is to vote on a law that would make the addition of foreign territory easier; a referendum of the local populace would be sufficient.

[Queequeg]

Armenia has to deal with the fact that it can't trade with either of the countries on it's border, both of whom want it's entire population dead.

Well fortunately the benevolent nations of Iran and Georgia also border Armenia.

I meant "two of four", and the borders with Turkey and Azerbaijan are the longest.  Don't second-guess my knowledge of Armenian geography. 

[Ed Anger]

Armenia has to deal with the fact that it can't trade with either of the countries on it's border, both of whom want it's entire population dead.

Well fortunately the benevolent nations of Iran and Georgia also border Armenia.

I meant "two of four", and the borders with Turkey and Azerbaijan are the longest.  Don't second-guess my knowledge of Armenian geography.

Woooo! Snap snap!